So what is Pythium's weakness?

[Endoperez]

I remember someone who killed enemy's mages with Chariots: the other guy hadn't realised his mages might be in danger even during storm... And the falnkers were trampled through! That might work with elephants too, as they can get trample through lines of larger protectors.

Does Mind Duel kill all the communicants? IIRC right spells that target a communion master affect all his slaves too. Although Incinerate or Frozen Heart, heck, even Charm of Hellbind Heart could work!

[Taqwus]

Hm, have you considered using Golden Era and trying to out-research him?

[ywl]

Try if you could get "Rain of Stone" to work. It's an Evocation 7 battlefield spell, which can only be countered by armor. So, in *theory*, you could "Cloud Trapeze" or "Teleport" a few of your *armored* Mystics into his main army, scipt them to cast the spell and then leave. If hit, each casting cause 14 damage to unarmored units. Two to three is enough to kill most mages on the battlefield. But I've not seen it used often in human game. So, I don't know how effective that actuall is.

If you have access to cheap Nature 2 mage, "Howl" is another possibility. The summoned wolves might attack from behind. But I don't know how effective that is in Dom 2.

As the others said, you mages and infantries are as good as his. His mages are strong but yours are versatile. You could have access to high level earth, water and fire spells that he can't ward against. But overall, it'll be a contest of economic resource.

[ March 10, 2004, 17:02: Message edited by: ywl ]

[Huzurdaddi]

But overall, it'll be a contest of economic resource.

In general this is true. However the problem is that his mages are sacred. This effectivly doubles the number of mages he can have. Yokies! I really think that this is the crux of the problem. His costs are lower due to the sacred modifier.

Hm, have you considered using Golden Era and trying to out-research him?

While I have not checked the numbers I doubt that anyone will be able to compete with sacred researchers for price/performance.

And Arco's strength is incredibly versatile magic - you have strong astral, and strong elemental magic - you can cast over half the spells out there.

Seems that people think that Pythium has inflexable battle ground magic. I don't know if I agree. They have strong astral, decent air, and decent water. They also have a random pick. Don't forget that due to them being excellently setup for communion those little randoms can easily become level 3 or 4 in combat and then they become real power.

Normally that would not be too much of a problem. However with their reduced maintainance costs they can really pump these guys out.

Your heavily armoured infantery is resource expensive but a lot tougher than his regular units

I think in general Pythium's armies are slightly sub-standard. They are not horrible by any means but they just do not have a "killer troop" (unless you count hydras, but their maintainance is too much for my taste).

Your priestesses can cure every ailment. Milk this ability for all its worth.

A nice ability to be sure. Really helps out those supercombatants!

Well, Pythium Prov Defense is pure crap...

True enough. It goes back to their army being somewhat sub-standard. Still sacred casters ... yeash.

That is indeed the ARM Commander from Total Annihilation, the best RTS made to date. Naturally, on my site, anyone who disagrees is a heretic and must be burned at the stake.

I think that the greatness of the game grew out of the interface infinate queuing changes everything. The only faw in with the game was the unbalanced units. This was mostly fixed in uberhack (it only took them like 6 years!!) but it took a while.

Oh and the TA-Hook is something that should have been included as well! It changed the game!

A TA2 with updated graphics, uberhack level (or better!) balance, the hook, and a good matchmaking system (a-la WC3) would be the best game ever produced.

Being sacred isn't all that overwhelming of a cost difference.

With your ability to Heal and your Mystics versitility you can make much more in the way of SC's. (Golems, etc) And equip them properly. Arco is no slouch at all when it comes to dealing with Pythium.

Use Astrologers to Pre-Doom his large armies then use your own Wrathful Skies/Returning Mystics to cripple his forces.

Your higher end Astral Mage (Astrologers) cost much less so you will have more than he will, allowing you to duel him more successfully.

Don't forget that Elephants if used in high enough squads won't rout, which will destroy ranks of infantry and cavalry (until his mages get at them).

The pretender will be your key factor and how you use him.

[Nagot Gick Fel]

Originally posted by Zen:
Don't forget that Elephants if used in high enough squads won't rout

They won't Last long vs Pythium however. Soul Slay (count on a Pythium human player to get it quick if a war with Arco or Caelum is likely) targets big creatures first, and with their pitiful MR elephants rarely survive it. Unless Pythium prefers to enslave them.

BTW I remember a funny Arco/Pythium battle in Doms 1 where a few pachyderms changed sides several times in the same battle.

[Daynarr]

BTW I remember a funny Arco/Pythium battle in Doms 1 where a few pachyderms changed sides several times in the same battle.

That must have been confusing experience:
- "He is your enemy!"
- "No, he is!"
- "He is lying, he is the enemy!"
- "Kill him, he is the enemy!"
- ...

[ywl]

[quote]Originally posted by Huzurdaddi:
[quote]
But overall, it'll be a contest of economic resource.
Seems that people think that Pythium has inflexable battle ground magic. I don't know if I agree. They have strong astral, decent air, and decent water. They also have a random pick. Don't forget that due to them being excellently setup for communion those little randoms can easily become level 3 or 4 in combat and then they become real power.

Normally that would not be too much of a problem. However with their reduced maintainance costs they can really pump these guys out.

It's not Pythiums having inflexible battle magic. It's Arco having very flexible battle magic. His Arch-Theurg is 380 a piece. Being sacred reduce maintainence cost by half - 190/15. It's still more expensive to maintain than your mytics and astrologer, not to mention twice amount of initial cost.

Theurg is 150 a piece and cheap but they don't have the random pick. A large number of Theurgs with "Quickness", firing off "Starfire" and "Orb Lightning" is formidable. But it's not uncounterable for Arco.

[Taqwus]

Huzurdaddi --

Check the Philosophers. They're *very* cheap, being pure researchers (heck, they don't even get a single point of magic) -- 50 gold gets you 5 RP plus magic scale. On a GP/RP basis, the cheapest mainline Pythium researcher is 150 gp Theurg with 6 RP (25gp/RP). In magic +3 the GP/RP costs for a Philosopher drop to 6.25; heck, even in Drain 3 that's 50 AU/2RP which is as good as the Theurg in magic-0 on a pure gold basis.

The one limitation on Philosophers is that they're capital-only. The resulting opportunity cost is what'll hurt.

[Darryl]

Originally posted by Taqwus:
Huzurdaddi --

Check the Philosophers. They're *very* cheap, being pure researchers

Umm..excuse my ignorance, but what is a Philosopher? I'm playing Arco right now and I don't have any in my capital. I played Pythium, and don't remember them there either although I'm pretty sure you meant Arco, right?