Most Efficient Researcher - Page 2

PDF · #11 March 24th, 2004, 09:59 AM

It seriously depends on your Magic/Drain scale...
The more the scale is "magic", the more the weak 1-path mages are good researchers... With a Drain scale you need better ones.
The national paths also play a role, with Air, Fire and Death having good research boosters.
AFAIK with limited -1/+1 scales the usual winning couple should be Sages (due to bonus) and Appr Theurg (sacred).With Drain scales Ulm Smiths are obvisouly fine, more so when given Fire lanterns.
Spectral mages are also quite good : no upkeep, access to death (Skull mentor).

PhilD · #12 March 24th, 2004, 12:03 PM

IIRC, the base RP of a Sage is 7, for a cost of 80 Gold.

The Daughter of Avalon has only 5 RP in a neutral dominion, for the same base cost, but since she's Sacred, she only costs half the upkeep.

It takes Drain 3 for two Daughters to have the same research potential as a single Sage, otherwise they are always higher. So, unless you're doing your research in a Drain 3 environment, Daughters of Avalon are always better in the long run (for research) than Sages. Plus, 2 Daughters will eventually get experienced and get a +1RP each, while the Sage will get a single point.

Of course, Daughters are capital-only, but in my book, anything that makes Sages uninteresting for research is a good buy (but that may be biased by the nations I usually play).

The Vaetti Hag of Jotunheim (55 Gold, not capital-only for 4 RP in a neutral environment) is also a good researcher; she will have a slightly better RP-to-cost ratio, since 7/80 is slightly less than 5/55, as soon as you're not in a Drain environment.

(I hope I don't have my numbers wrong...)

It would be nice to have a chart that lists, for each Nation/theme and each possible Magic/Drain scale, the best RP-to-cost mage available. Of course, you'd have to balance this against the upkeep-free undead (mostly, take initial costs into account)...

Sandman · #13 March 24th, 2004, 01:21 PM

A contender for best researcher has to be the Arcoscephale Golden Era philosopher, with 5 research for 50 gold. They've not got any magic, however, so they're useless for anything else.

Note that sages are worth buying even for a maximum drain Ulm. 4 research for 80 gold is considerably better than 5 research for 140 gold.

Ragnarok-X · #14 March 24th, 2004, 05:34 PM

For me its definitly Sages. ^^ Forge a couple of Skull Mentors (?) and there u go.

Torvak · #15 March 24th, 2004, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ragnarok-X:
For me its definitly Sages. ^^ Forge a couple of Skull Mentors (?) and there u go.

If you have access to sages there is no reason to use skull mentors. They are better off with gem generators.

PhilD · #16 March 24th, 2004, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nagot Gick Fel:

quote:
Originally posted by PhilD:
Hmm, Master Smiths should have 6 RP, since they have 1 Fire and 2 Earth.

Neither Fire nor Earth magic give research bonuses as far as I know. Master Smiths are worth 5 RP just like any other standard 3? mage in Drain 0.

I always assumed the RP of a mage was the sum of its Magic paths, plus a fixed amount (assumed to be 3), with a few having a special bonus. What's the formula?

Nagot Gick Fel · #17 March 24th, 2004, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by PhilD:
I always assumed the RP of a mage was the sum of its Magic paths, plus a fixed amount (assumed to be 3), with a few having a special bonus. What's the formula?

Make that 3 a 2.

Add:
+4 for Sages and Adepts of the Metal Orders (except the Iron ones who get no bonus - bug?).
+5 for Wizards.
+6 for Lore Masters.
+8 for the Great Sage pretender.
-2 for Witch Doctors

Adjust for Magic/Drain, except Ulm Smiths count Drain +X as zero.

LintMan · #18 March 24th, 2004, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nagot Gick Fel:

quote:
Originally posted by PhilD:
I always assumed the RP of a mage was the sum of its Magic paths, plus a fixed amount (assumed to be 3), with a few having a special bonus. What's the formula?

Make that 3 a 2.

Add:
+4 for Sages and Adepts of the Metal Orders (except the Iron ones who get no bonus - bug?).
+5 for Wizards.
+6 for Lore Masters.
+8 for the Great Sage pretender.
-2 for Witch Doctors

Adjust for Magic/Drain, except Ulm Smiths count Drain +X as zero.

Hmmm. The Vaetti Hag has 1 ? for magic path, and 4RP. I think the revenant has 1D, and also 4RP, but am not sure about that. Maybe 4RP is the minimum (in a neutral environment)?

Quote:

Originally posted by Torvak:
If you have access to sages there is no reason to use skull mentors. They are better off with gem generators.

Wow - Do you really forge that many gem generators that you don't have enough slots to spare for research items? It seemed to me that all the research bonus items are essentially upkeep-free research (the best kind!). One skull mentor or lightless lantern works out as a lot cheaper than a sage, in the long run, IMHO.

-LintMan

Nagot Gick Fel · #19 March 24th, 2004, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by LintMan:
Hmmm. The Vaetti Hag has 1 ? for magic path, and 4RP. I think the revenant has 1D, and also 4RP, but am not sure about that. Maybe 4RP is the minimum (in a neutral environment)?

When I check the Hag in the recruitment screen I can read "Research ability: 3". Either your Hag has +1 due to experience, or she's in a magic+1 dominion.

LintMan · #20 March 24th, 2004, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nagot Gick Fel:

quote:
Originally posted by LintMan:
Hmmm. The Vaetti Hag has 1 ? for magic path, and 4RP. I think the revenant has 1D, and also 4RP, but am not sure about that. Maybe 4RP is the minimum (in a neutral environment)?

When I check the Hag in the recruitment screen I can read "Research ability: 3". Either your Hag has +1 due to experience, or she's in a magic+1 dominion.

Whoops - I was probably an exp bonus. I can't check it right now; I was relying on my memory, which matched PhilD's post below saying the Hags have 4RP.