drain life has no MR check??

[Norfleet]

Originally posted by Vynd:
Nevertheless, it does seem rather remarkable that there is absolutely no way for a living creature to defend against Drain Life.

Well, dying seems to work pretty well. Can't be drain-lifed if you die.

And wasn't there another thread floating around somewhere pointing out that Drain Life fatigues its target even when it misses?

That was about life-drain attacks. It seems to be, if anything, a peculiar interaction between said attacks, and general on-hit effects, and mirror images.

[Stormbinder]

Originally posted by Vynd:
Nevertheless, it does seem rather remarkable that there is absolutely no way for a living creature to defend against Drain Life. And wasn't there another thread floating around somewhere pointing out that Drain Life fatigues its target even when it misses?

Yes, I've started such thread some time ago. Currently the lifedrain (attack, not the spell) is buged, meaning every attack on mirror imaged target results in fatique drain even when there is no damage. Maybe it is biger than that, but that much is confirmed.

[rabelais]

Originally posted by Norfleet:
Feels like it belongs in Death Magic to me. It causes *DEATH* after all. Where *ELSE* does it belong?

Norfleet is being funny here, which is good.

But he's also implicitly suggesting the (i.e. his, as ermor champ) little munchkin cocktail be preserved, which I think is lame.

And generally, trying to kill Dusk Elders is way more trouble than it's worth. A Dusk Elder has a better than 50/50 shot of surviving even an Earth Attack, unassisted. With a few Ghosts as bodyguards, those odds rise to pretty much certainty. Anything you could equip on a regular assassin that would let you kill Dusk Elders would cost you more than the Dusk Elder!

And you still risk being potted by a Drain Life.

Um... this is my point. DE are already tough targets, they don't need Drain Life to be balanced.

I would make Drain Life a water spell, very high level (7-9) and see whether that helped make water a more useful combat option. It needs unresistable damage more than any other path.


Rabe the Pro-Life (Kinda...)

[Vynd]

Ah, right... I was mixing up the Drain Life spell with life draining melee attacks. Sorry about that. That's less of an issue then, seems to me. Drain Life is what, a level 5 spell? That requires 4 Death to cast? Those aren't easy requirements to meet, hence the spell should be fairly powerful if there's to be any justification for trying to get access to it.

And it does seem to me that Drain Life is a highly appropriate Death spell. Whereas it doesn't fit thematically at all with Water, so far as I can see. Water could probably use a few more nice combat spells, but that doesn't mean they should have this one.

[rabelais]

All life as we currently understand it is water-based.

Think of it as desiccation on steroids.

I'm not saying it's a perfect solution (so to speak! ) but to say it doesn't work because isn't thematic is simply wrong.

One might just as well argue that non-vampiric undead should be immune to reinvigoration of any kind.

The point is path and nation balance.

Drain Life is the closest thing to a sure single target killer in the game.

The three big water nations (atlantis Ryleh and TienChi) are all conspicuously underutilized, death/ermor is not.


Rabe the Naturalist

[Cainehill]

Originally posted by rabelais:
All life as we currently understand it is water-based.

Not in Dominions 2 it isn't. Abysians can't be water based - their touch burns wood, meaning that water would boil within them. Likewise, Caelumians probably don't have much water, or it'd freeze.

I'm all for helping Water magic out, but I don't think Drain Life should be there. Does seem rather surprising that it isn't affected by MR, and has no defense against it though.

[Wendigo]

There are multiple defenses vs the Drain life spell: having loads of hit points, regeneration & reinvigoration, luck, life leeching of your own via spell/attack.

[Norfleet]

Originally posted by rabelais:
Um... this is my point. DE are already tough targets, they don't need Drain Life to be balanced.

Dusk Elders are D3?1. Only a D4 elder or one with a skull staff can drain life. You just chose the wrong one to try to kill.

[Taqwus]

Heh. In a single-player game Last night, a Skratti kept trying to Drain Life one of my SCs.
Unfortunately for the Skratti, the SC was an Elemental Queen of Water with extra hp from heroic toughness, and thus capable of regenerating an insane number of hp per round in addition to the hp and reinvigoration she was draining from fleeing Jotuns with her Wraith Sword.

[Stormbinder]

Originally posted by Cainehill:

quote:

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Originally posted by rabelais:
All life as we currently understand it is water-based.

Not in Dominions 2 it isn't. Abysians can't be water based - their touch burns wood, meaning that water would boil within them. Likewise, Caelumians probably don't have much water, or it'd freeze.

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I agree regarding abissians. As for caelum, perhaps they have antifreeze-type stuff flowing though their veins, that prevents their body's water from freezing.