OT - US Presidential Candiates Arrested!

[Atrocities]

We should start our own party, call it the GEEK party and what our ranks grow.

[dogscoff]

What you americans need is a revolution. You got the guns, now go out and use 'em. Power to the People!

[Ed Kolis]

I agree... I'm just not the one to start that kind of thing

[Possum]

Ed Kolis said:
I agree... I'm just not the one to start that kind of thing

Smart man. Of the men who signed the Declaration of Independence in 1776, less than a third were still alive when the war ended in 1783.

Some died of old age and natural causes, but most died of rope burns around their necks. The british were not very forgiving of rebellion, and neither is the US government today.

[TerranC]

http://www.sharedvoice.org/unamerican/

Starhawk, please edit out some of your drugatory words, they are not needed here.

[Starhawk]

"No....though for some of them I'll say sorry.....I'm tired so I'm a litle testy...sorry......cept for my remarks toward Ed those stand.

I am an advocate of peace don't get me wrong, but as the old saying goes for the country that choses they aren't going to learn war anymore they will be crushed under the boot of those who still learned war.

And again that song is biased they don't exactly give you both views so sorry I don't like biased views like that either.....especially SINCE WE ARE NOT proffiting from the damned war in Iraq....in fact it's COSTING US MONEY....oy.

Like I said USA is far from perfect but it is the better choice out of any other country around."

Oh and my oppinion of Kerry is that he is a flipflopping jackass who wants to win on his "I won three purple hearts!" line.....so BFD my Great Uncle DIED in Nam after staying for two tours and getting hit twice....Kerry got pissant wounds (not even enough to send him home for God's sake or keep him in hospital for more then a few days) and went home after 4 months after writing his own report to make himself a hero......yeah I don't want that guy in office I'm sorry.

Now I'm going back to making my mod and hopefully making people happy with it.....and other fun stuff here.
I like most of you guys so as I said to most of you sorry for getting testy it's just US bashers piss me off especially when hey never point out the flaws of their own countries first and instead focus on us.
Now anyway this is likely my Last post in this thread so cya'll in the more lightheared and fun threads.

[Gandalf Parker]

Post deleted by Gandalf Parker

[Gandalf Parker]

England was trying to "civilize" the world NOT liberate it, the countries they conquered they occupied and established as tax paying provinces (AND DON'T EVEN CLAIM THE US HAS PROVINCES OR I WILL BEAT YOU WITH A STICK ) and not simply trade partners.

By the way... as far as US territorys...
American Samoa
Federated States of Micronesia
Guam
Marshall Islands
Northern Mariana Islands
Puerto Rico
Palau
Virgin Islands
and until recently the Phillipines

just to name a few. Yes they are territorys. Their citizens can serve US military and they pay US taxes. They have no state rights and cannot vote in elections. This is not propaganda. The US fully acknowledges them as US provinces and always has even though most americans arent much aware of them.

Germany! fah they were trying to "liberate" their "Aryan brothers" not impoverished countries run by dictators who were responsible for OVER A MILLION DEATHS in the course of their reign many tens of thousands of which being at the hands of said dictators secret police force (and their sons who just decided to rape women for the hell of it).

Do you not see that as kindof an opinion? Im not saying that you arent correct but surely you see where the same COULD be said about the US by others. Doesnt mean its true but secret police, atrocities, and freeing someone from one form of government to another should surely sound familiar.

Why the HECK does a country like the US trying to free these people get treated like it's doing something wrong, maybe those big bad European powers should show more concern for the world outside their borders as well and start HELPING rid the world of dictators for a change. WHY THE HECK does getting rid of a freakin dictator now a days become a BAD THING. think about a world with no dictators? Wouldn't that be great.....

Generally any country crossing into another because they dont like who is in charge has been frowned on. Even when its done for the right reasons it hasnt been liked because someone is bound to disagree with who was chosen and why. Often not the first one, but the second or the third such choice. They all gradually get more and more questionable in the eyes of others.

And RUSSIA "liberating" their neighbors from rival empires was land grabbing that's all, they too occupied said nations and turned them into paying provinces with no independant government or anything of that sort.

Again kindof point of view. If you check the list of US territories you find that most of them were areas we occupied after a war for the purpose of helping them recover. And we are still in most of them. To some that would be "spoils of war". Im sure there are good reasons for it, Im just pointing out that the same facts can be worded different ways depending on who is doing the wording.

Now moving onto your remark on those terrorist scum crossing the borders to "liberate" Iraq from the US LIBERATION IS NOT THEIR INTENT! they simply want to kill as man servants of "The Great Satan" as they can else wise they would actually try to defeat the army and not just kill women children and their own "Islamic brothers" without discression....that is not LIBERATION by ANY definition.....

Wow. Where to begin. You dont expect that to sit as a "fact" do you? The way you worded it? Thats what they are doing and how they see it?

[Starhawk]

As far as I was aware Puerto Rico does not pay taxes.

As for US military service anyone can join the US military (as you can gain citizenship through service) so that's not a big deal that these territories can.

A brief bit about the FSM
"In 1979 the Federated States of Micronesia, a UN Trust Territory under US administration, adopted a constitution. In 1986 independence was attained under a Compact of Free Association with the US. Present concerns include large-scale unemployment, overfishing, and overdependence on US aid. "
Not a province as they are not a US territory they are an independent nation.


Wee bit about American Samoa (yeah it's a teritory):

This is a traditional Polynesian economy in which more than 90% of the land is communally owned. Economic activity is strongly linked to the US, with which American Samoa conducts most of its foreign trade. Tuna fishing and tuna processing plants are the backbone of the private sector, with canned tuna the primary export. Transfers from the US Government add substantially to American Samoa's economic well-being. Attempts by the government to develop a larger and broader economy are restrained by Samoa's remote location, its limited transportation, and its devastating hurricanes. Tourism, a developing sector, has been held back by the recurring financial difficulties in East Asia.

They don't pay taxes to us they do however have trade tariffs.

Guam (US Territory no independence)

The economy depends on US military spending, tourism, and the export of fish and handicrafts. Total US grants, wage payments, and procurement outlays amounted to $1 billion in 1998. Over the past 20 years, the tourist industry has grown rapidly, creating a construction boom for new hotels and the expansion of older ones. More than 1 million tourists visit Guam each year. The industry has recently suffered setbacks because of the continuing Japanese slowdown; the Japanese normally make up almost 90% of the tourists. Most food and industrial goods are imported. Guam faces the problem of building up the civilian economic sector to offset the impact of military downsizing.

again sounds like we give them money no mention of taxes being paid.

The Marshall Islands are actually independant:
21 October 1986 (from the US-administered UN trusteeship)

A little on their economy:
US Government assistance is the mainstay of this tiny island economy. Agricultural production is primarily subsistence and is concentrated on small farms; the most important commercial crops are coconuts and breadfruit. Small-scale industry is limited to handicrafts, tuna processing, and copra. The tourist industry, now a small source of foreign exchange employing less than 10% of the labor force, remains the best hope for future added income. The islands have few natural resources, and imports far exceed exports. Under the terms of the Compact of Free Association, the US has provided more than $1 billion in aid since 1986. Negotiations have continued for an extended agreement. Government downsizing, drought, a drop in construction, the decline in tourism and foreign investment due to the Asian financial difficulties, and less income from the renewal of fishing vessel licenses have held GDP growth to an average of 1% over the past decade.

Northern Mariana Islands:
Govermant status: commonwealth in political union with the US; federal funds to the Commonwealth administered by the US Department of the Interior, Office of Insular Affairs

Government type: commonwealth; self-governing with locally elected governor, lieutenant governor, and legislature

Economic status:
The economy benefits substantially from financial assistance from the US. The rate of funding has declined as locally generated government revenues have grown. The key tourist industry employs about 50% of the work force and accounts for roughly one-fourth of GDP. Japanese tourists predominate. Annual tourist entries have exceeded one-half million in recent years, but financial difficulties in Japan have caused a temporary slowdown. The agricultural sector is made up of cattle ranches and small farms producing coconuts, breadfruit, tomatoes, and melons. Garment production is by far the most important industry with employment of 17,500 mostly Chinese workers and sizable shipments to the US under duty and quota exemptions.

Palau:
Independence was given: 1 October 1994 (from the US-administered UN Trusteeship

Economic State:
The economy consists primarily of tourism, subsistence agriculture and fishing. The government is the major employer of the work force, relying heavily on financial assistance from the US. Business and tourist arrivals numbered 50,000 in FY00/01. The population enjoys a per capita income twice that of the Philippines and much of Micronesia. Long-run prospects for the key tourist sector have been greatly bolstered by the expansion of air travel in the Pacific, the rising prosperity of leading East Asian countries, and the willingness of foreigners to finance infrastructure development.

Puerto Rico
Status: Commonwealth

Economic Status:
Puerto Rico has one of the most dynamic economies in the Caribbean region. A diverse industrial sector has far surpassed agriculture as the primary locus of economic activity and income. Encouraged by duty-free access to the US and by tax incentives, US firms have invested heavily in Puerto Rico since the 1950s. US minimum wage laws apply. Sugar production has lost out to dairy production and other livestock products as the main source of income in the agricultural sector. Tourism has traditionally been an important source of income, with estimated arrivals of nearly 5 million tourists in 1999. Growth fell off in 2001-03, largely due to the slowdown in the US economy.

Virgin Islands:
Status: Unincorporated Territory

Economic State:
Tourism is the primary economic activity, accounting for 80% of GDP and employment. The islands normally host 2 million visitors a year. The manufacturing sector consists of petroleum refining, textiles, electronics, pharmaceuticals, and watch assembly. The agricultural sector is small, with most food being imported. International business and financial services are a small but growing component of the economy. One of the world's largest petroleum refineries is at Saint Croix. The islands are subject to substantial damage from storms. The government is working to improve fiscal discipline, to support construction projects in the private sector, to expand tourist facilities, to reduce crime, and to protect the environment.

So a few of the territories you listed are out of date as they are now independent. I'm still looking for their tax paying status.


Though I do suppose you are right about your views on "Liberation" vs "occupation" being a point of view. But if you look at it the US still hasn't fully "rebuilt" many of those territories to where they could function as seperate states as many of them are too poor to function on their own without soon becoming 3rd world nations.

And yeah the fact that the terrorists are scum is kind of a wild opinion that is strictly POV based as I am sure they beleive they are holy warriors and justified.....though I still say they are scum as I'm sure many do.

[Krsqk]

Starhawk said:
Oh and my oppinion of Kerry is that he is a flipflopping jackass who wants to win on his "I won three purple hearts!" line.....so BFD my Great Uncle DIED in Nam after staying for two tours and getting hit twice....Kerry got pissant wounds (not even enough to send him home for God's sake or keep him in hospital for more then a few days) and went home after 4 months after writing his own report to make himself a hero......yeah I don't want that guy in office I'm sorry.

If one thing bothers me about this, it's the instant change in his story. Not during this campaign, but back when he returned from Vietnam. While he was there, he was filming war videos where he was the hero, so apparently he wasn't too upset about the war. In fact, that would seem to indicate he thought war was a good opportunity to display his heroism (whether in RL or just on the silver screen). However, once he got home, he all of a sudden was against the war; he had seen dozens of atrocities committed by our troops; and he even said he had committed some himself. That doesn't sound like a good way to build up his image as a war hero!

I guess my question is: What happened on the flight between Vietnam and the US to change his desire to appear to be a courageous war hero who saved the day several times?

Of course, one could also ask what happened in the past year to change his mind again, but that might be seen as a snide political attack. Maybe that whole anti-war thing was just a phase brought on by shellshock?