Way OT: Racism

[Thermodyne]

I won’t touch this one. Other than to say that is in our genes. As a species we are successful in part because of are ability to compete. And part of this is the underlying desires to have our own personal gene pool survive. In the deep dark past, the introduction of a new variation of species was a threat to the existing pool. So we developed an underlying predisposition to eradicate it and protect the existing pool. These days, the underlying spark is still competition, although it is for other things now. But take people today and add some stress, and many will tend to fall back onto the old hard wired genetic traits. Also there are some who are just horsesasses too. The part that really bugs me is the political correctness crap. It often prevents a meaningful dialogue and this hampers society as a whole.


Another thing that really bugs me is the misuse of terms that are often used in these types of discussion. An anti-Semitist would hate Arabs and Jews alike. Both groups of people are part of a larger group know as Semites. But it amazes me to see one Dr. Soandso after another pervert the term to advance a political agenda. These days it is most often applied to the acts of racial cleansing perpetrated by the Nazis, and the problems in the Middle East. The Nazis were anti Semites, but the Palestinians and other Arabs are not, they just hate Israel and anyone that supports Israel. Of note here is the fact that the Palestinians have little or no claim to the area known as Israel today. Its real name is Assyria, and in modern time it was the property of the Ottoman Empire (1280 > 1923) and then past into Egyptian control (Who were under the thumb of the English). I would think that any claims prior to 1280 would be beyond enforcing today. Never in modern time was Palestine a Nation or State. Palestine was not even a province under the Ottomans. Ottoman holdings So what we really have is competition again. I guess people are just born to it.

[Will]

Yes, very well said dogscoff.

But, where to begin... perhaps a little background.

My parents were born and raised in San Diego, and as far as I can tell, experienced very little in racial prejudice, being in a mixed Caucasian (hispanic and non-hispanic) communities. I, however, was born in San Diego and raised in rural Pennsylvania. As of a few years ago, one of my neighbors openly flew the Confederate flag. Everybody was white, and the only time anyone would usually see a black person is when the juvinile hall in the next county brought their inmates to parades as a drill team. So, from my parents, I got a message of tolerance for all people, and the lesson of not discriminating based on something so trivial as skin color.

From everyone else, though, I got full-on racism. It was a common view that black people should still be slaves. Everyone believed that all blacks are criminals, only some hide it better than others. Everyone felt that whites are superior in everything except violence and basketball. While I lived there, it was easy to just ignore all of the blatant racism that existed there. I just didn't know anyone who was affected by it, and as far as I knew, it didn't matter.

Then I came to school in Los Angeles. I met people that racism affects every day. It is much clearer to me the things that people of other races go through on a daily basis. A friend of mine purposely buys only bright clothing, because if he ever wears anything dark, he is immediately surrounded by suspicion that he is going to steal something, or already has. And if it was me put into exactly the same situation where he would be regarded with suspicion, there would be very different reactions.

A few years ago, there were some laptop thefts in the building where I lived. Basically some people were stupid, and walked out leaving all their doors open. Nobody saw people taking the laptops. But the police got a call from a white girl saying that the thieves were in a specific room, she was sure of it. The "thieves" turned out to be the black friends of a black girl that lived in the room next to the girl who called the police. They had been visiting a few times a week for months previous. They had never been on the floor where the thefts occured. Yet the word of one stupid white girl was enough to warrant an hour long interrogation of these innocent men, and a search of their vehicles. I guarantee that nowhere near that response would happen if the complaint was against a white or an asian male.

As for incidents of minorities becoming violent with white people, the occurance of that which is racially motivated is so small to statistically be considered zero. The black girls beating up the white girl? That doesn't happen without some sort of provokation. After the fact, it's difficult to find out what happened, because the white girl will claim she did nothing wrong and is entirely innocent. The black girls won't say what the provokation was because in hindsight, what most likely was a heat of the moment thing isn't enough to justify what they did, and they believe that nobody will listen to them anyway; and they're probably right.

As things are now, minorities are in a white-dominated culture. I don't know the exact numbers, but I believe fairly soon, whites will not even make up half of the population in the United States, but will still control most of the political and economic power. The cultural celebrations you speak of are an attempt to counteract this extreme power differential. The same goes for things like affirmative action. It's a common misconception among a lot of white people that affirmative action says you must hire a certain amount of minorities, or else some negative consequence occurs. On the contrary, the majority of affirmative action laws on the books simply require that due consideration be given to each candidate, and institutes policies requiring that minorities be given interviews for positions. Laws having quotas have routinely been struck down, and the ones that hold are the ones that will require employers and institutions to interview minorities and then choose the BEST candidate, when before, it would be all too common for all the non-white applications to be thrown out, and never even make it to the interview process. The laws are not there to put whites at a disadvantage, but instead to counterbalance the prejudice held by those in power.

Come back and complain about all this stuff when you have been a minority for a significant period of time, and been subjected to the whims (ranging from indifferent to malicious) of those in power around you. Until then, realize that you have far more advantages than other minorities in the Western world, and keep your complaints about so-called unfairness to yourself, because they aren't valid. When you can see the bigger picture, you'll realize that.

Anyway, that was a bit long-winded, even though I tried to stay clear of the points that have already been made in Kwok's and dogscoff's posts.

And Fyron, it was almost a valiant effort, but you failed

[Puke]

well, the only people i discriminate against are francophile quebecois. sorry DG, just joking. i know you can handle a little friendly ribbing.

i dont know anyone that finds the word 'black' offensive, and i think its generally peoples (around here) view that it gets to the point rather than trying to be artificially politically-correct with things like african-american. but honestly, i dont call anyone black. i call people by their names, or i say "excuse me sir" or if im friendly with them i just say "hey."

the only time i have EVER had to describe anyone by their color is when i dont know their name and i am trying to describe them to someone who has or will see them, and i need to give them identifying characteristics. "talk to the Mexican guy in the blue shirt at the front desk" or "yeah, that pen belongs to the Black guy that walked through here five minutes ago"

As for anti-white descrimination, people are ugly. all people are ugly, and i dont mean how they look. 99% of people prefer people of a similar culture. its an evolutionary trait that encourages one culture to conquer the poor guys next to them, and its awfully hard to educate out of people.

so if i see restaurant thats full of pepole of one color or nationality, i stay out of it. theyre just going to be offended when i cant pronounce the things on their menu, and they are going to wonder what im doing there. and if i happened to walk in with one of 'their' women, theyre going to be upset about it - even if they keep it to themselves. and there is nothing worse than ordering food from people that dont like you.

likewise i wouldnt want to walk into a restaurant or bar thats filled with nothing but white people, especially if i have a forign girl with me.

i get along with all kinds of people, but im not going to go out of my way to change the world. its only going to work if they get along with me too, and maybe im a coward, but i play it safe by keeping to places that are already integrated.

[Renegade 13]

The amount of general stereotypes being portrayed in this thread or the UPN thread makes me sad. Until we stop judging people by the colour of their skin or ethnicity, this sort of stuff will never end. Understanding NOT tolerance is the best way to go.

Damn, I was trying to avoid those general stereotypes. I want to say that I try to have no "racist" feelings towards people from other lands, cultures, and/or races.

- And by the way, most of the traditional European holidays are already major national holidays with many large celebrations

I'm sorry, I must not have made my point as clear as I was trying to. I know that Christmas, Easter, etc are European holidays. However, they are NOT "white" holidays. Any sort of European celebration you can think of has people of all cultures and races participating. I do not think the same can be said for the parades and festivals whose only purpose is to promote one culture. You don't see a White Pride parade, do you?

None of the black people I know take offence at being called black.

In that case, I am sorry that I jumped to conclusions. You see, where I'm from the vast majority of people are white. All I can speak about is what the media has shown me. What I see is people calling black people "African American", not black. Sorry if that was inaccurate.

Now why don't asians who are the MOST minority

That is absolutely not true where I live (Canada, specifically BC). I travel to Vancouver, and honestly, the "white" faces I see are in the minority.

David: You are most certainly correct. When I was learning French in school, I could never ever understand the whole Masculin/Feminin thing either. Boy, am I happy I don't have to take French anymore! Question here though: Do kids in Quebec have to learn English in schools? Here (In BC) we have to learn French up to grade 8 at least, and have to have passed French 11 if we want to have a hope of getting into University.

Come back and complain about all this stuff when you have been a minority for a significant period of time, and been subjected to the whims (ranging from indifferent to malicious) of those in power around you. Until then, realize that you have far more advantages than other minorities in the Western world, and keep your complaints about so-called unfairness to yourself, because they aren't valid. When you can see the bigger picture, you'll realize that.

Ouch. I am sorry if my complaints angered you, but it was how I saw things. That is the exact purpose why I posted my views here, so that they could be shown to be small minded and stupid, if they were. How can you gain knowledge without debate? How can you debate without expressing your views, even if they are foolish? I am NOT a racist person, I simply don't like to see advantages in one area being countered by countering advantages being given in a separate area. Is it so hard to judge people as you meet them? It must be, because no matter how hard I try, I admit to myself that I am prejudiced. I do my best to get to know people, and judge them by their actions, but it is very difficult sometimes. Again, sorry if my words have angered anyone.

As for minorities becoming violent with white people, I can turn what was previously said around. Please don't talk about what you do not know. I was routinely beaten up by the Native kids where I live, up until about grade 6 (when I grew, and got bigger than them). Call that simple school bullying if you will, but I was rarely attacked by another white kid.

It truely is sad to see racism. We as a people are supposed to be civilized; however racism is not civilized in the least. Strange how we as a species could advance so far beyond our basic genetic roots, and yet be controlled by them even still. If that's not irony, I don't know what is.

Puke, I totally agree with you.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

I've always beleived that self-control sufficient for your worst trait when it's at it's worst is the minimum nessasary. My own is a very bad temper.

Now, as for how much self-control is enough...stop when you find yourself limiting normal emotional reactions. Maybe even go back a bit.

[Atrocities]

One observation that I would like to ask about is the people who keep racism alive by saying that everyone else is racist when in fact it is they who are perpetuating the racism.

People like Jesse Jackson, Al Shepard, Levar Burton, Charles Barkley, and many more. It angers me to no end to think that these hate mongers deliberately keep feeding the monster that is racism with their narrow minded assault to call and classify all things as racism.

They are hypocrites and I when the very people they claim to represent wise up and see them for the hate inducing scum that they are, then and only then may we see real strides forward in ending the age old belief that slavery ended in 1969. (When poled well over half of the black people under the age of 25 believed that slavery ended in 1969.)

These crazy arse lawsuits for slave reparation are also another indication of how these hate mongers want to keep the illusion that all black people are still slaves alive.

The NAACP and its legal actions against large companies alleging discrimination is nothing more than extortion.

It is my firm belief that only those who want to hate will accept the message of hate and endorse it. I am saddened by how many people honestly believe that hate is the only way to live. If we do not learn to accept each other for who we are individually, then how can we move forward without blood shed?

Life is too important to us all to waste on racism and hatred.

[Starhawk]

"Come back and complain about all this stuff when you have been a minority for a significant period of time, and been subjected to the whims (ranging from indifferent to malicious) of those in power around you. Until then, realize that you have far more advantages than other minorities in the Western world, and keep your complaints about so-called unfairness to yourself, because they aren't valid. When you can see the bigger picture, you'll realize that"

Unless you were born in the 60s-70s period you don't even know what it's like to really truely be at the "whim" of the government so that argument of yours is a little bit harsh considering you dealt with a minority of jerk offs, I assure you the reverse is true in places like Harlem, or Hampton Virginia or Norfolk Virginia......and to be perfectly blunt I've met more racist black people in my life then I have openly racist white people sorry but should I now go claming I'm at their "whim" since I was outnumbered and they got a kick out of knocking me just because I was "the white boy"?

And my point about black students getting bonus points on their exams is taht if you want to be treated equal you should have to work for it just like everyone else, you only earn respect when you are worth respecting.


OH and BTW the majority of Americans are either White or Mixed race these days so I do kind of understand why they are in main political offices and stuff, simply stated there are more of them then there are black/asian/latino people in this country.

"As things are now, minorities are in a white-dominated culture. I don't know the exact numbers, but I believe fairly soon, whites will not even make up half of the population in the United States, but will still control most of the political and economic power. The cultural celebrations you speak of are an attempt to counteract this extreme power differential. The same goes for things like affirmative action. It's a common misconception among a lot of white people that affirmative action says you must hire a certain amount of minorities, or else some negative consequence occurs. On the contrary, the majority of affirmative action laws on the books simply require that due consideration be given to each candidate, and institutes policies requiring that minorities be given interviews for positions. Laws having quotas have routinely been struck down, and the ones that hold are the ones that will require employers and institutions to interview minorities and then choose the BEST candidate, when before, it would be all too common for all the non-white applications to be thrown out, and never even make it to the interview process. The laws are not there to put whites at a disadvantage, but instead to counterbalance the prejudice held by those in power."

Yeah actually white people and mixed races severely outnumber other races in the majority of the united states so I don't know where your getting your info from.


Anyway to end my statements here on a note of non argument, you have ALL made valid statments and points. None of us are racists that's been made clear, and we all hate racism of any fashion. So let us all say we hope (and pray) that in the future racism is no longer a trait we have to see ever again.

[Starhawk]

"Levar Burton,"

As in The guy from star trek? The guy from Reading Rainbow? seriously? where is that from?

[Atrocities]

I was just as stunned to find out as the next guy. He once wrote a book about how America would fight a race war. I saw a news clip of him talking about his views on racism and I was just stunned. I like the guy, I really do, but his views on the politics of racism are just to hard core for me. He is a brillant actor and from what I have read, a good writer too.

[Starhawk]

Holy cow, live and learn......whoah.

Oh and just to let ya'll know, again I am not a racist by any means and am glad to know that none of you are either