creating a new, fictional oob

[Suhiir]

Swarms and swarms of "cheap" infantry with a few REALLY good weapons (on the Tenars) vs a dug-in (or VERY soon to be dead) defensive position hoping their ammo holds out and every mortar/artillery piece in range isn't otherwise occupied.
Might be interesting for a scenario or two but I'm not sure it would hold anyone's interest for long.
Well, the AI's usual Banzai tactics are appropriate for Posleen.

[Mobhack]

Try the Glosters at the Imjin River scenario a couple of times - should do for the flavour of the books without any need for any fiddling about.

I can't see any 'fun' element in the adaptation - no tactics, merely a sheer horrendous unrelenting knock-down grind. WW1 style trench warfare defence really. There is a reason there are not many WW1 trench warfare games (computer or tabletop) about. This would be WW1 on steroids.

The books seem to rely on WMD to have any real effect on the aliens - and WMD are not modelled.

Andy

[Firestorm]

I think your proportions are a little off. Remember that points are supposed to represent the combat effectiveness of a unit, and the whole point of the books is that earth units were _always_ outmatched.

Yes. I know that points usually represent effectiveness rather than actual cost, and I also know why the developers chose to do that (because if gamers tried playing the Iraqis or North Koreans and found that they were hopelessly outgunned *and* outnumbered, they would complain even more than they already do). But if the Posleen had to fight man to man, I think I just might start seeing the opposite problem.

In fact, the only things that would usually stop the Posleen (other than MI or other galtech) was trapping them in a firesack and pounding them with ridiculous amounts of artillery (well, that, nukes, and booby traps).

I really need to start making more use of the latter. Tenar don't seem to set off landmines, but I bet a fougasse would do quick work of them.

The Posleen should always be met in either a defense against them or maybe a meeting engagement (and if it's a meeting engagement, earth forces would usually get eaten alive).

EVERY battle I've played against them so far has been a defense except for one (meeting engagement, Meekong Delta, 1971; satchel charges are fun but charlie only has so many). Trying to take territory against them as they are now would be foolish at best.

So essentially, without galtech, fortified positions, and/or nukes, the Posleen, by the book, are pretty much unbeatable, and were designed that way. Thus, I don't think using the book force numbers are a good idea to figure out the point value of the units. If you want to represent how outnumbered earth forces are, I think scenarios would be the way to go, and ignore the point costs.

For what it's worth, I did pull a near-win against them. Playing the Swiss. In the Alps. In December. In extreme low-visibility conditions.

I would have won had my artillery not run out of ammunition. I almost never buy ammo containers when playing against the AI, but I now see that I'm going to have to change that. This endeavor is also teaching me the value of landmines and demolitions (seldom used them in the past, will do so more often at least against aliens). I'm going to be tinkering more with both the Posleen and my own tactics, but I don't think it would be too hard to raise my victory rate up to about 15% or so (from its current level of about 1.5%).

Try the Glosters at the Imjin River scenario a couple of times - should do for the flavour of the books without any need for any fiddling about.

Played it. Liked it. Destined to Defeat is another nice one.

I can't see any 'fun' element in the adaptation - no tactics, merely a sheer horrendous unrelenting knock-down grind. WW1 style trench warfare defence really. There is a reason there are not many WW1 trench warfare games (computer or tabletop) about. This would be WW1 on steroids.

You can't see any fun in it because you've designed a game called Steel Panthers (not Meaty Cannon Fodder)... and perhaps because you ain't crazy.

I tend to prefer the infantry side of ground warfare, and I have a very strange sense of fun. It's usually me who's throwing hordes of infantry at a technologically-superior foe, rather than the AI. Sometimes I even take the role of alien scum and let the AI play the puny earthlings. When I get the kinks worked out, I might give that role to some of my more sporting/masochistic family members (spending a large portion of one's developmental years in the presence of Firestorm= potentially unhealthy?).

[Judicator65]

Originally Posted by Firestorm

Yes. I know that points usually represent effectiveness rather than actual cost, and I also know why the developers chose to do that (because if gamers tried playing the Iraqis or North Koreans and found that they were hopelessly outgunned *and* outnumbered, they would complain even more than they already do). But if the Posleen had to fight man to man, I think I just might start seeing the opposite problem.

For what it's worth, I did pull a near-win against them. Playing the Swiss. In the Alps. In December. In extreme low-visibility conditions.

Well, part of the problem as well is that the way the Posleen function is "alien" to the way the SP engine is designed. For example, tenars should really have TSI/GSR level sensors, which would mean that they probably should have done better in your Alpine scenario. Also, there's no real way to model the way that the normals would just pour ridiculous amounts of fire in the general direction of incoming fire. This was one of the big things, after all; unless a sniper got his shot lost in the "noise" of a lot of outgoing fire, the second he took his shot, he'd get plastered by hundreds of weapons plastering his position. Basically, there's no real provision currently for the way Posleen would blind-fire at anything that looked remotely like a threat.

There was a comment about another scenario that might be up your alley as well, I think it was a defense against the North Vietnamese where all the snipers had to just keep firing and couldn't move, simply because of the incoming hordes.

Edit - Sorry, it was the USMC vs NKorea, in fact, almost the very first scenario: 001, Obong-Ni Ridge.

[Suhiir]

Originally Posted by Judicator65

For example, tenars should really have TSI/GSR level sensors, which would mean that they probably should have done better in your Alpine scenario.

Not sure how high a value WinSPMBT can handle for TSI/GSR (at least 60), but 120 should be about right.

Originally Posted by Judicator65

Also, there's no real way to model the way that the normals would just pour ridiculous amounts of fire in the general direction of incoming fire.

You could sort of model this by making the squads as big as WinSPMBT can handle (20? 50? never tried to see how many men is max in a squad). And of course they will only have a single weapon (slot 1) which you could tinker with to create values for shotguns and 1mm railguns.

Huge squads also has the advantage of being hard to destroy with anything other then artillery or other AoE weapons. AND makes them more vulnerable to such weapons since the hex is "crowded".