Some Observations...(all are welcomed)

[narf poit chez BOOM]

The general arguement for eating animals is their lack of sapience - Ie., lack of awareness of themselves and others as entities.

[Wade]

I used consciousness as a general term. Sapience also comes in varying levels. We humans eat a huge variety of life forms. I argue that many, if not most, of them have a level of sapience; awareness of themselves and others as entities.
*I eat meat also*. I'm just saying that what's out there in space could be quite bad for us. That's why we should strive to develop research, space travel, colonization, and defenses.

Regarding "sapience":awareness of themselves and others as entities: *putting aside all the cultural differences between people and nations*.
Do these life forms, for example, have *any level* of awareness of themselves and others as entities?

Dog, Cat, Cow, Pig, sheep, rat, fish, octopus, squid, horse, monkey, ape(chimpanzee, gorilla, orangutang,etc.), tuna(yes, I know I already put fish), dolphin, whale, crab, snake, lizard, chicken (and other birds, how about parrots?), deer, elephant, turtle...(I guess those are good enough.)

Words like sapience and consciousness are all creations of language. What it all generallizes to is "intelligence level". There will be many life forms with a higher intelligence level than ours. Hopefully they will have advanced to direct energy consumption.

-Wade

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Emotions are certainly possible without sapience.

[capnq]

The general argument for eating animals is that they taste good, and provide a few nutrients that plants don't.

[Caduceus]

“It's easy to quit Space Empires. I've done it hundreds of times.”

- Mark Twain

[Renegade 13]

capnq said:
The general argument for eating animals is that they taste good, and provide a few nutrients that plants don't.

Wow. If you read some of the emails that guy got, it really is amazing how many total fools are in the world, thinking the way they do. "Animals have never done anything to hurt you" indeed! What about the people bitten by a dog, mauled by a cougar, killed by a bear, kicked in the groin by a cow? *Yep, that did happen to me* Haven't hurt people...give me a break!

Sorry, I just get a little annoyed by animal rights activists...

[PvK]

Renegade 13 said:
Wow. If you read some of the emails that guy got, it really is amazing how many total fools are in the world, thinking the way they do. "Animals have never done anything to hurt you" indeed! What about the people bitten by a dog, mauled by a cougar, killed by a bear, kicked in the groin by a cow? *Yep, that did happen to me* Haven't hurt people...give me a break!

Sorry, I just get a little annoyed by animal rights activists...

So...
1. Some humans at some point were attacked by some animals for reasons some humans saw as unprovoked.
2. Therefore all humans, even those never attacked by any animal in any circumstance, have (by virtue of some sort of species self-defense?) the right to kill (and maybe eat, or just eat animals killed by others in some unseen factory somewhere) any animals they want (as long as they aren't owned or protected by some other humans...)?

I think "because they're tasty" is more like the actual reason people decide to eat animals. That, and they don't have to face and kill (or "clean", or even cook) them themselves.

PvK

[Slynky]

Wade said:-----I go to sleep thinking about Space Empires and wake up thinking about Space Empires. I have maintenance around the home that I have been putting off.

You may just be in the light stages right now. In my PBW 2005 Championship (final) game, I would make mental notes of things I needed to check on next time I had the computer on. And at work, I would think of something and email myself a reminder for the turn that night. And explain how things were going to my wife (who couldn't care less).

*shrug* So, it gets worse!

[Renegade 13]

PvK said:
So...
1. Some humans at some point were attacked by some animals for reasons some humans saw as unprovoked.
2. Therefore all humans, even those never attacked by any animal in any circumstance, have (by virtue of some sort of species self-defense?) the right to kill (and maybe eat, or just eat animals killed by others in some unseen factory somewhere) any animals they want (as long as they aren't owned or protected by some other humans...)?

Well...that actually wasn't what I was saying. I was more pointing out one fallacy in the arguements of some of the people who emailed the guy who ran that site.

I think "because they're tasty" is more like the actual reason people decide to eat animals. That, and they don't have to face and kill (or "clean", or even cook) them themselves.

PvK

Granted, if they weren't tasty people likely wouldn't eat animals

However, some people do "face and kill" and clean and even cook them. For example, me. I help to butcher the animal, and have absolutely no problem eating a steak that night.

Animals eat other animals, and a lot more cruelly than people eat animals. After all, we kill them humanely, without any suffering. We're a lot nicer than animal carnivores. I don't see any reason why animals should eat animals, but people shouldn't...??

[Strategia_In_Ultima]

Renegade 13 said:
Animals eat other animals, and a lot more cruelly than people eat animals. After all, we kill them humanely, without any suffering. We're a lot nicer than animal carnivores.

Ooh, I dunno about you there across the pond but we here in the Netherlands are having some problems with that..... Right now, a reasonably-sized part of our animal (mainly chicken, pig and cow) products comes from what we call the "bio-industry", which is definitely NOT humane. Chickens get their beaks burnt off upon birth, are raised to become so heavy their feet won't support them any more and get slaughtered when they're under a year old. They're killed by either drowning or gassing them. Cows are placed in crates with a head opening when they're still calves, they get raised to be so fat they suffer from being compressed in such a small space, they regularly suffer from numerous afflictions and them they get slaughtered too, also in a very cruel way. That's why the animal rights activists in my country are absolutely adamant that this trade becomes forbidden.

Now I don't know about you there, but I plainly get sick of stuff like this, and therefore I don't eat meat. Try all you may, I will end my days without ever having consumed a dead animal (barring the few times some part of some animal was hidden in something that looked vegetarian).