OT: Insightful (re: Amish shooting)

[Atrocities]

I love women.

I think men that hurt women are the lowest forms of gutter trash known to exsist. Men who call the women in their lives "*****es" and "ho's" are without honor and are in fact cowerdly little closet thumb suckers.

While some women are truly evil most, like men, are just getting along. Then you have the few who enjoy perpetuating the negative sterotypes of women like that bumbling self absored spoiled rotten little trollup Paris Hilton. Hell that girl is NO role model yet millions of teenage girls around the world want to be just like her. WTF?

TV not only perpetuates the negative image of women, they are now telling women that in order to be cool you must be blond, dumb, and have a boy friend from another race who calls you ***** all the time as if he owns you.

Then when the news reports the kind of things they enjoy reporting because it gets ratings, people all of a sudden go "oh my God" and then quickly forget all about it. Just in time to turn on Paris Hilton on MTV and watch more "These are my *****es" rap music videos.

[Renegade 13]

Personally, I'm all for the death penalty and think it should be used a lot more than it is (in the US, we unfortunately don't have it here in Canada...).

Any crime that results in the death of another should be punishable by death. If you're convicted of the crime, it's automatic. I bet violent crime rates would go way way down if that was the case. Something like sexual assault? Well, there's a simple answer to that one; sterilization. Cut off the bastards testicles. Bet you'd see sexual assault rates drop like a rock too.

If society and the justice system showed that there would be no tolerance for crap like that, and the punishment actually befitted the crime, crime wouldn't appear to be such an attractive thing.

[dmm]

I would have jumped all over Mephisto's misuse (IMHO) of the Declaration of Independence to justify his blanket rejection of the death penalty, but RonGianti beat me to it. (Not that M.'s not entitled to his opinion.)

But to go back to the (OT) topic: The NYTimes editorial is "spot on," as the Brits say, in describing the problem at the symptomatic level, but he errs in identifying the root issue. The core problem is not lack of equality for women, nor is it hatred of women. It is not even the sexualization and objectification of women and girls (and boys). The core problem is that everyone is being taught that there is no absolute right or wrong, that there is no moral standard by which behavior should be judged, and that there is no God who will hold them accountable for every deed done in secret. Without these things, morality becomes strictly a matter of opinion, with nobody's opinion being any better than anyone else's, including the opinions of rapists, child molesters, serial killers, and porn merchants.

[Phoenix-D]

Side note: I always find it amusing how some people will lump porn and gay people in with mass murders.

dmm: Some of the largest mass murders in recent years have been conducted by religious people, so I really don't see how that flies.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Phoenix-D:

Where do you see homosexuals mentioned?

Soviet Russia was Athiest. Now, how about we stop that track before it gets out of hand?

[Phoenix-D]

narf: people in general, not in this thread. And to complete the opposite effect Hitler was..nominally Christian.

When people start insinuating that I have no morals, and/or do not deserve to be an American citizen (hi, President Bush Sr!) I get just a liiitle annoyed.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

I can understand that.

[Wenin]

Lowest common denominator.

If you dislike how the news makes its money, then write a letter, stop watching... or both.

The really ugly stuff that the article describes has always been around in one form or another. Just with today's technology, and our massive use of it, the ugly truth is revealed. Society isn't in decline, it is right where it has always been. It's just in High Def color now.


Protect yourself. Live your life how you see fit. Fight crime when you are able.

I haven't seen the Clinque ad, nor the Telephone company ad.

However I like playing the Grand Theft Auto series of games, just how I like playing the Halo series games.

Freedom is a painful thing, because in order for you to have it... you have to allow others to have it as well. Video games, news stories, TV ads.... these don't make people do anything. People need to be responsible for their own damn actions. Stop blaming others for their misdeeds.

Someone isn't a porn junky because the internet easily provides it. They're that way because they lack self control.

Someone isn't a murderer because they played violent video games. The very notion should be ridiculous to a logically thinking person, however the more that notion is pushed... the more people will use it to come to terms with their own behavior.

I didn't murder people, the video games made me do it.

What crap.

[dmm]

Phoenix-D said: Hitler was..nominally Christian.

Nominally means "in name only." So I totally agree.

Phoenix-D said: When people start insinuating that I have no morals, ...I get just a little annoyed.

I assume that I am one of those people who has you annoyed, probably because you are an atheist. Let me just say that I know some atheists who are more moral than some others I know who claim to be Christians. However, although of course I commend the former and am disgusted by the latter, I would contend that both are thinking and behaving illogically, given their postulates. My point was not that all atheists are immoral, but rather that the logical consequence of atheism is amoralism -- the lack of any morality, good or bad.

Phoenix-D said: dmm: Some of the largest mass murders in recent years have been conducted by religious people, so I really don't see how that flies.

That is a good point; being religious in the wrong way can cause people to do despicable things. (Examples: Jim Jones and the Guyana mass suicide; the 9/11/01 murderers; the Oklahoma City murderers (Timothy McVeigh); pogroms by Christians against Jews.) But how do we judge these actions to be despicable? Another way to put the question is: are these actions TRULY despicable, or is that simply our opinion?

To go back to the original thread topic: Is violence against women WRONG (no excuses allowed)? Is objectification of women WRONG (even if the woman encourages it)? Is sexualization of children WRONG (even if the sexualizer is "made that way")? Is sexual harassment WRONG (even if all the guys at the stadium are participating, and the woman seems flattered as well as flustered)? For the record, there ARE correct answers, and they are yes, yes, yes, and yes. But when people are told, "There is no absolute morality," we should not be surprised when their answers come back wrong.

[Puke]

narf poit chez BOOM said:
Soviet Russia was Athiest. Now, how about we stop that track before it gets out of hand?

wow, they really were godless commies? i never knew! this gives me a new-found respect for the Soviets.