Standard special ability, totally pointless? - Page 2

Sammual · #11 November 12th, 2006, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Cainehill said:
Problem being that Jotunheim's units are big so only one fits into each square, meaning that they wouldn't be easily covered by a standard. That's probably one reason why they don't _have_ a standard bearing unit.

They have the tiny hero that rides the wolf.

Sammual

Sheap · #12 November 13th, 2006, 04:36 AM

Which I find really amusing, in the Dominions way. Jotun thought process: "Well I would run, but that little guy is charging in, I can't let him show me up..."

NTJedi · #13 November 13th, 2006, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Sammual said:

Quote:

Cainehill said:
Problem being that Jotunheim's units are big so only one fits into each square, meaning that they wouldn't be easily covered by a standard. That's probably one reason why they don't _have_ a standard bearing unit.

They have the tiny hero that rides the wolf.

Sammual

Yes, he's a virtually useless hero... most players would gladly trade him for 100 gold. I wish the heroes without magic were more worthy of a hero title.

Gandalf Parker · #14 November 14th, 2006, 12:45 AM

Yeeesh. He is a stealthy leader with stealthy units. So yeah, if you dont use him that way then he is virtually useless.

Graeme Dice · #15 November 14th, 2006, 02:01 AM

Quote:

Gandalf Parker said:
Yeeesh. He is a stealthy leader with stealthy units. So yeah, if you dont use him that way then he is virtually useless.

You can always just buy a chief for 50 gold to lead your Vaetti around if you want stealthy units. He's a redundant unit, but at least he's not as bad as the Ulmish heroes.

TomD · #16 November 14th, 2006, 06:27 AM

Surely it's as much about character as it is about usefullness? They're free units that should add extra feel and story to the game, not wipe out enemy nations single-handed. I really like having the Ulmish heroes (with some cheap items) leading charges of black knights. Okay, so they normally only lead one or two charges before they go to a heroic grave but that's the same for normal Ulmish commanders. It would hardly be in keeping for them to be magical super-heroes.

Sheap · #17 November 14th, 2006, 07:56 AM

A hero should be heroic, and many of them simply aren't. Ulm's heroes are hardly better than normal commanders. They don't necessarily have to be super-powered but they should give you something you normally don't have, or be a better version of your regular, commonly used units. That's why Etimmu is such a good hero, because powerful undead are good units to start with, but he's slightly better, plus you can get him earlier than you can summon anything comparable. Ulm's heroes are better than their normal commanders, but the problem is that their normal commanders are not particularly great.

Plus, mortal combat units don't tend to have particularly long lives, another drawback to the Ulms. Mages and immortals are much more valuable as heroes because they last longer. A mortal combat hero needs to be *really* good in order to be of value because otherwise all he will accomplish is dropping a bunch of expensive equipment in some field somewhere.

B0rsuk · #18 November 14th, 2006, 09:18 AM

Sheap:
You should be playing Heroes of Might and Magic 5. I'd rather play a strategy game.

Endoperez · #19 November 14th, 2006, 10:31 AM

Sporsnjarl has Standard. That's VERY important for successful stealth missions. Ulm heroes would be nice if any other nation got them, but as it is, all armies of Ulm are pretty much the same. The same counters work against all of them. Giving the Ulmish heroes and 100% lightning resistance would help, as would increased magic resistance (although as they happen to be mounted, they can use Lead Shield).

reverend · #20 November 14th, 2006, 11:13 AM

Quote:

B0rsuk said:
Sheap:
You should be playing Heroes of Might and Magic 5. I'd rather play a strategy game.

What has HoMM5 to do with anything? Besides being a decent game if you have an hour or two to kill.

My opinion on hero units:

They add flavour. Sure, they should be usefull, but honestly. Usually there are a whole lot of commanders in the field, with hundreds of units following them. I don't think a single unit you get through sheer blind luck (haven't had a hero in my two games with Ulm so far) should not be able to turn the tables in a war.

As for being different to normal troops: Why should they be? They are, after all, still part of the nation. They probably were normal soldiers, became leaders and excelled at what they were doing. So, they should be better, but not different.

Staying with Ulm as an example, a powerful mage hero would make absolutely no sense for this nation, especially MA or LA. Simply because he would have been persecuted for being a spellcaster. He would have no had no chance to gain popularity, and that is what makes a hero.