Repulsion strategies

[Meglobob]

Migaaresno said:

Tripple bless whit good scales. FTW!

-Migaares, Truth God of Oceania.

My mages with 100+ water gems (good scales) will utterly destroy you...

[Ironhawk]

Agrajag said:
The point of this thread is to list such strategies, so why don't you write them down instead of merely informing us of their existence?

Actually, the poster said that he wanted a bless strategy to repulse a bless strategy. I didnt want to take the thread off-topic, only to point out that the only way to beat a bless is not another bless.

Since you are interested: blesses normally rely on smaller numbers of high power units. The logical counter to this is Astral Magic, which is extremely powerful vs single units. Paralyze comes to mind in particular. Of course Ryleh, by default, will pretty much slaughter any bless strategy. Also, any nation that has H3 mages could Smite the hell out of a blesser - no research needed.

[DrPraetorious]

To be explicit - I want this thread to be about non-bless-rush tactics for fighting bless-rush. I'm sorry if my original post is confusingly worded.

Unfortunately, strong blessers generally have a high MR, and I have not had a lot of success with smite or paralyze against strong bless troops - except when backing up other strong bless troops (as ME ermor, shadow vestels with archtheurgs smiting in the background did quite nasty things to a nature 9/water 9 machaka.)

That said, when all I have are screening troops and archers, I find that lightning bolt is a better bet - it still always hits and no MR to worry about.

[Huzurdaddi]

Ironhawk said:
Of course Ryleh, by default, will pretty much slaughter any bless strategy.

Indeed.



25 Vans F9W9 vs. 25 Illithid Soldiers ( had they been simple Illithids this combat would have been over far quicker -- further in a rush you will not have Illithid soldiers in this quanity they cost far too much resources ) and 115 lobo guards.

Note that rlyeh had a whole bunch of research done which may have skewed the results. This combat is near a tipping point, btw. If I add in a few hundred more gold ( ~ 500 +-) of chaff then rlyeh wins.

[Graeme Dice]

Huzurdaddi said:
Note that rlyeh had a who bunch of research done. Which may have skewed the results. This combat is near a tipping point, btw. If I add in a few hundred more gold ( ~ 500 +-) of chaff then rlyeh wins.

Is it possible to mod how long the Illithid paralysis lasts for? This might make a difference since they were initially balanced when their paralysis was permanent.

[PvK]

One thing that can stop blessed troops are tough troops with a strong aura, such as Niefel Giants. I have seen a sufficiently dense wall of those freeze Vanheim troops before they can do much damage to the giants.

[Quietly]

Your counter to neifelheim is inadequate due to the aura, as stated above...

I wish I could show you some replays of the past few turns from the dawnstrike game I am playing as jotunheim in... as far as waves of chaff vs few giants...

4 neifelheim giants and 1 1H jarl leading them

They killed about 120 / 150 arcosphale troops, including about 16 chariots, and around 40 of their highest armour troops and a couple lightnign bolt casting mages.

With E9N10 I suffered 0 losses.

Even though he researched quickly and build lotsof his national strong air mages, he lost his capitol in spite of around 10 of them casting lightning bolts, his god also casting away, and some of his mages scripted to summon 3-4 elementals, with about 200 assorted national troops (this was vs about 20 giants)... I suffered fewer than 5 causualties, and those were mainly a few units that had escaped being blessed (my prophet got assassinated, so no sure bless)

It's great to say you are tired of hearing about it, but you can't just talk your way around it... neighbor dude had no chance... when 1 turns worth of my units can slaughter around a year's worth of production value + gold, without a loss, how can you say he has a chance early game... and if you accept super bless is going to gobble a couple nations by midgame, how much better do other nations really fair by midgame once giants or other super blesses have around 3x the income and forts (this is around the time when most nations can access the spells which you claimed would counter blessables)?

Btw, regarding map size questions: Its a large map we are playing on, bigger than 15 provinces per player... I'm not saying I win, and in fact I'll probably get stomped later mid, but as to the issue of balance in the game, one should be concerned with the fact that some (MANY) nations have practically 0 chance of victory if they happen to be closest to certain others.

[Ironhawk]

Huzurdaddi said:
25 Vans F9W9 vs. 25 Illithid Soldiers ( had they been simple Illithids this combat would have been over far quicker -- further in a rush you will not have Illithid soldiers in this quanity they cost far too much resources ) and 115 lobo guards.

I'm really surprised by this result. Seems counter to all my experiences playing and fighting ryleh. But I will freely admit that I havent actually tested it against a full on rush.

[Teraswaerto]

Quietly,

It seems to me that Arco would have had much more success with Sleep rather than Lightning Bolt, and that Chariots and Myrmidons are the worst possible choice of troop for fighting Niefel giants.

[Quietly]

They had plenty of other troops as well, I'm not sure what troops you would have thought would have turned the tide... if they didnt have as large a horde as you'd like, I'm sure they spent their resources on myrms because their gold went to mages... which was a smart move, considering I could have killed hundred(s) more trashy troops, as I had low fatigue and full life after dispatching that 150 or so (with 4 giants...)

As for, the main battle, sleep vs lightning bolt... really it matters little because of the 5 turn scripting limit. I lined all my giants up at the back row, and sat a couple solitary militia at various points in the middle... everyone on hold + attack... in this case they blew off their first 4 rounds of spells as lightning bolt, with 0 jotun militia killed (spell innacuracy vs a single target)... they could have just as easily blown off 4 rounds of sleep with no kills. (mind you sleep is a relatively short range spell)

once you get beyond the 5th round, there is no more choosing sleep or choosing anything... the battle would proceed exactly the way it did... the ai autocasting whatever it did, and arcosphale being slaughtered.