LA Atlantis, another thread looking for tips

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

Anybody still interested in LA Atlantis?

I'm having trouble figuring out a long-term strategic goal. I mean for Agartha, I might go for Earth Blood Deep Well. But Atlantis is severely limited in its research abilities, IMO, and doesn't gain much from a magic scale thanks to its weak mages. What's the ace up my sleeve supposed to be? What'll win me the game?

A total noob's analysis of LA Atlantis' units w/regards to expansion.

Seal Hunter - A crucial, though hardly deadly unit, its unusually resource intensive for chaff. It gets the Harpoon which can tie up enemy units, but thats an extra, rather than an ability I would depend upon. It doesn't seem all that reliable (esp. with low precision) and I'm guessing its especially ineffective against high ap cavalry.

While these are technically chaff, they're nearly equivalent to independent light infantry, and cost only 60% as many resources. They don't have the shield, however, and are vulnerable to archers.

Don't undervalue these in combat, but don't let yourself forget they're chaff too. More on these later.Oh, and mundane weapons.

Snow Warriors - Don't let them enter hot lands. Their armor will get weaker. In two cold, they go from 13 prot to 16. Acceptable encumbrance. Cold 3 may be worth trying despite the gold hit. They have magical weapons.
w/Lance - the standard choice, their lance gives them a +1 attack boost, and a chance of repelling, but no shield and miserable damage. They're excellent against low protection, hitpoint troops such as animal tribes, minor undead, shades.
w/Glaive - perhaps a superior choice, they cost more resources. Their glaive is still magical, loses the attack bonus, but has nine points of damage. Combined with their strength, these units can punch through medium-high armor, such as Agartha's Heavy Infantry, when the Lance would just strike glancing blows.

Ice Warrior - their attack is higher than it appears at first glance, since the +1 from the weapon isn't displayed until you click on 'Attack'. Their basic protection is a (for HI) solid 17. With two cold, that jumps to 21. 21 protection with an encumberance of 7 isn't bad. And they're your first unit with a shield- a good parry value of six, to, that will catch quite a few arrows, though it won't do quite as well in melee, thanks to the Ice Hauberk's def penalty. Unfortunately, the Ice Lance hampers their use. A solid defensive unit, it lacks punch. They also have a mildly above average morale (12), which will be helpful if you encounter any fear or awe. They're still quite inexpensive in terms of gold.

Ice Guards - They have similar equipment to the Ice Warrior, but are more skillful and a much better offensive choice. Their basic stats are better all around, except for AP and cost.
w/Ice Blade - you lose a small amount of defensive strength due to trading a length four weapon for a length one, but you keep your shield, and get 5 damage + 12 strength, rather than 3+11. The blade also has some minor attack and defense bonuses. All in all, an excellent, but hard to mass choice.
w/Glaive - It's only mildly more damaging than the Snow Warrior w/Glaive, though it does have significantly better stats, dramatically better prot, and a higher cost. These are better units, but you don't always want them. On their own, they're better, but if you're only looking for damage output, while other units stop the charge, Snow Warriors are a better choice.

Mournful - an excellent unit. They're pricy, but much more capable of expanding past your dominion. The 35 gold may hard to stomach when you're looking to hire an Angakok, but is often worth it. Their protection is drastically better than Snow Warriors thanks to the shield, but they still cost less resources and worry about climate less thanks to Bone armor. They've got better defense, and an all around better chassis. They are size three, so you can only fit two to a square, but that isn't to hard to stomach. Their damage potential is enough to kill Heavy Infantry and Cavalry in a single blow, within the range of a single DRN, even without rolling a six and re-rolling.

Oh, and their shield does have a lower parry value than the Ice Aegis, but that's countered by their hitpoints. If you end up facing Man's longbows, though, it may be worth keeping in mind. Oh, and they are your lowest morale unit with a measly 9, despite the cost.

Arssartut - I'm undecided.

Overall Expansion - Unless the independents are homogeneous, you'll likely be recruiting a mix of three units during your expansion, sufficient to take on most strength 5 threats. These three units are usually Seal Hunters, Snow Warriors/w Lance, and Mournful.

When facing cavalry, you'll put the Seal Hunters in front to absorb the initial damage-boosted charge and die. With the dangerous charge out of the way, your Mournful will usually carve through even Heavy Cavalry easily.

When facing typical archers, you'll put the Mournful in front to draw all the arrows. They can take it, especially with their hitpoints and Turtle Shell Shields.

When facing large amounts of infantry, you'll have your Snow Warriors front and center, with your Seal Hunters and mournful on the flanks and behind a bit, keeping their speeds in mind. Hopefully, the Snow Warriors will tie down the infantry without much injury, while the Mournful will take care of heavy armor, and the Seal Hunters the chaff, and eventually help with outnumbering any high def units.

The Mournful are formidable enough fighters, but because of their low morale, its best if they're not the first ones into battle, especially if you have Ice Guards available. As long as you don't give them the chance to break, they'll serve you well.

[Jazzepi]

I saw someone use a strat where they massed the large sized guys and used magic 1 (or 3 I can't remember) to quickly research to falling frost.

Jazzepi

[K]

That was me. Its an interesting idea, but I've refined it a bit.

[Jazzepi]

I thought it was fairly effective. You got hemmed in by an unfortunate starting position.

Jazzepi

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

Hmm.... things not to do as LA Atlantis, unless you're looking to make your opponent die of laughter.

1). Cast stoneskin on your Frost Father pretender with his 25 chill. It's rather embarrassing to have your super fall unconscious during a critical battle, after about four rounds. He will be affected by his own chill. It might have worked combined with a ring of frost. But thank god it happened to me in SP.

2). Get a Snow Captain with Heroic Agility (increased attack, def, and ambidextrousness), prophetize him, give him two Ice Swords. So far, so good. Now you just need to let him get ahead of the Seal Hunters so they can promptly throw a harpoon in his back at point blank range. Also a SP gem.

He survived, amazingly, only weakened -4 str. I had to draw him back to my fortress, where he has 42 hitpoints, 15 prot, 30 morale, 15 MR, 5 Enc, 18 str (+10 from dominion), 16 attack, and 25 defense. Still no shield, or missile protection, unfortunately.

[Rytek]

I have another to add to the 'not to do" list.

Don't ever have frost wolves guard your mages. Even with 50% cold resistance the mages quickly get over fatigued and die.

[vfb]

Lazy_Perfectionist said:
2). Get a Snow Captain with Heroic Agility (increased attack, def, and ambidextrousness), prophetize him, give him two Ice Swords. So far, so good. Now you just need to let him get ahead of the Seal Hunters so they can promptly throw a harpoon in his back at point blank range. Also a SP gem.

He survived, amazingly, only weakened -4 str. I had to draw him back to my fortress, where he has 42 hitpoints, 15 prot, 30 morale, 15 MR, 5 Enc, 18 str (+10 from dominion), 16 attack, and 25 defense. Still no shield, or missile protection, unfortunately.

Ha ha ha . I've been playing a little SP LA Atlantis 'cause this thread got me interested. I find it really hard to get my hapooners to throw their harpoons, and when they do, half of the nets end up on my guys. But the nets look really cool, so I can't stop doing it!

By the way, I made my first Angakok my Prophet. I figured the extra base HP and the ability to self-buff with quicken self would be nice. He's W4D2. Then the next Angakok I recruited was A2W3D2. Damn, Mirror Image and Mistform too! I supposed I'll thug the new guy out anyway. Even though he won't have Prophet HP, he can still bless himself.

[SelfishGene]

Remember LA Atlantis' only real advantage is that it's a fully amphibious land nation; it faces many of the same problems that EA Agartha has to confront. Only, imo, LA Atlantis has an even narrower magic base from which to build it's empire.

Things like Burdon of Time are a good idea for Atlantis and takes advantage of some of it's few subtle advantages, like it's near immunity to old age with units that have lifespans over 500 years. Send Tupilac is a questionable spell, as the Tupilac has very poor attack and defence ratings, and it's only certain to kill weaker commanders. (Of course, i've had a Priest Starspawn, unequipped, fight and kill a Vastness that attacked it summoning stuff, so victory is always possible).

Ulimately Atlanis is a nation whose armies are built around mobility not staying power. Use that mobility to get an advantage over your opponents.

[Ewierl]

SelfishGene said:
Remember LA Atlantis' only real advantage is that it's a fully amphibious land nation

It goes one better: try playing around with the amphibious + sailing combo. You can do fun things like starting in an deep-sea province and leaping over a hostile shallow-sea province to hit a land target on the far side. Good scouting is key, because your armies can be just about anywhere anytime if you've got an ocean handy!

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

Yeah, Send Tupilac is questionable. If you're discussing Burden of Time, then as undead, the Tupilac will benefit greatly from Utter Darkness. As the manual mentions in its sample strat, if you've got a death heavy pretender, consider casting your globals Well of Darkness, Utter Darkness, and Burden of Time. The consequences are minimal.

If not, it is questionable. But there are advantages to taking out their lesser commanders. If they can't use the standard independent commanders to ferry around reinforcements, that's to your advantage. If you can take out several low-level priests before an assault, any undead hordes you use will have to worry a lot less about banishment. If they have to use their good priests for h1 banishment, thats good.

I'm not certain how it would turn out, but I suppose I'll have to experiment with this situation.
1). One friendly black servant in an enemy province defended only by pd, set to attack.
2). Two casts of tupilak attempting to kill the commanders the same turn.

I suppose it depends on the order of events, and whether the commanders are replaced immediately, but it would be nice to route the entire pd with one Black Servant.