communion (?) - Page 2

thejeff · #11 July 13th, 2007, 04:34 PM

I think Pythium communicants are a special case. You can test it, but I wouldn't assume other no magic (or different path) slaves get less fatigue.

Can anyone confirm that slaves act if their turn comes before the masters? I've never noticed this. I would expect to see slaves casting fairly frequently, until they fall asleep at least. But I don't use communions often.
There are known weirdnesses with quickness.

This could be nicely exploitable with an SC. Allowing him to self buff, as well as get buffs from the master.

PyroStock · #12 July 13th, 2007, 04:50 PM

Quote:

thejeff said:
Can anyone confirm that slaves act if their turn comes before the masters? I've never noticed this.

This is what originally made me start thinking of a slave/master. I had what looked to be slaves casting (I assigned some cheap fatigue spell after slave commune), but when someone else said slaves couldn't I assumed that meant the AI skipped my slave script on some of them assuming it was not necessary for that fight. Now I'm more inclined to believe Baalz is right on slaves being able to cast depending on the order.

Ironhawk · #13 July 13th, 2007, 05:02 PM

Slaves cannot act at all. I dont know if Baalz is doing something special but I've used Communions a lot and I have never once seen a Slave do anything but stand there? Can you back this up with solid proof Baalz? What you are saying goes against everything I know of communions.

No, you cannot be both Slave and Master. Only one or the other. I dont know what will happen if you cast both spells in sequence.

Amhazair · #14 July 13th, 2007, 05:16 PM

Slaves casting spells happened to me too, in the first game I actually used communions. At the time it didn't strike me as weird, and when I learned more about communions I assumed it had to do with the turn order, as Baalz describes it here, though I'm not quite sure that that was the cause. (I am certain they were actually slaves though)

Frostmourne27 · #15 July 13th, 2007, 05:42 PM

I don't usually use communions - I think they're usually more trouble then they're worth - but the few times I have, I'm pretty sure that I've seen slaves acting on their own. In Dom2 at least, I _know_ it happened - I had a bunch of quickened slaves charge the enemy. As far as slaves getting fatigue, they get a proportion equal to 1/# of members of communion, but of the totaly they woud've got if they cast the spell themselves. E.g. Earth wind is cat by an E10 cyclops with a matrix and two slaves with earth 3. the slaves get 1/3 of the base fatigue for bw (40 IIRC) And the cyclops gets 1/3 of the hugely reduced amount an E10 mage gets when casting Blade wind. If the communicants have no/not enough magic (to cast the spell) I assume the progression is reversed. Would make Master Enslave a scary prospect for the communicant, if its possible to get more than 200 fatigue from a communion masters spell. Fatigue from spell mages cast is capped at 200. Is that true for other members of a communion casting spells too? IDK, but I sort of think its also capped.

As to being a slave AND a master, astral mages with bad/unusual research and no scripts sometimes cast both, which might indicate it working, but they also sometimes use communions in the arena, so they might just be being stupid.

Kristoffer O · #16 July 13th, 2007, 05:46 PM

Seems strange. If slaves cast any spell whatsoever after having become slaves it is a bug.

The point is that they lend their power to their master and let him use them as magical batteries.

Frostmourne27 · #17 July 13th, 2007, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Kristoffer O said:
Seems strange. If slaves cast any spell whatsoever after having become slaves it is a bug.

The point is that they lend their power to their master and let him use them as magical batteries.

thanks for clarifying how it's supposed to work. Any such clarification forthcoming on the master and slave issue? That is, can a mage be both at once?

thejeff · #18 July 13th, 2007, 05:54 PM

I think there is known weirdness with quickened communion slaves. Could that be where this impression comes from?

And I've definitely seen indy blood mages without slaves cast both Sabbath Master and Slave. Don't know what the results were since they didn't have any other spells to cast.

Kristoffer O · #19 July 13th, 2007, 05:54 PM

I'm not sure, but I suspect he is (or should be) rendered useless when he becomes a slave, as slaves are not supposed to cast anything.

lch · #20 July 13th, 2007, 06:02 PM

No, slaves can act on their own. The only thing is that if any one communion (sabbath etc.) master casts a spell in a combat turn, then they have to perform the "cast spell" action aswell, lending their support to the communion master, and can't act themself. But if all communion masters are somehow occupied, engaging in melee combat or already left the battlefield for example, then the slaves act as normal mages in a battle.

Take care that, as has been noted before, the actual fatigue that a unit gets is determined by the magic paths and levels he has as if he'd cast the spell himself (and then divide by number of slaves+master), while the communion master takes considerably less fatigue because he might be magically more powerful than the slaves. This is extra bad if the slaves don't have the actual levels required to cast the spell.