Bad Monkeys; Or how to jump-start the blood game?

[Velusion]

Sombre said:
I totally agree that blood is powerful in the late game and for blood nations that's fine. But if you're looking for the win, you really don't want to be wasting resources trying to get into blood with a bloodless nation. It would take a lot just to get to the point that a nation with blood access starts the game at, let alone the kind of economy Lanka, Mictlan etc have set up. You'd also have to waste time researching the blood tech tree instead of freeing researchers up or going for the more traditional spells for your nation. If you're already in the late game before you even start going for blood, it's never going to arrive in time to help you out. If you start going for it in the early or mid game, you're going to weaken yourself in the short term which will prevent you building up and improving your late game. Plus if you end up hard pressed in the mid game it's all been a waste of time, since you won't see the late game to reap the rewards.

Most non-blood nations that I've seen win larger MP games have branched into blood at some point, so I think your blanket assumption is incorrect. I'm not saying you have to have blood to win large games but that it helps.

Personally, if you are playing in a large MP game and are a land based non-blood nation with easy access to indy blood mages, I'd think you would be foolish to not start a blood economy - wars permitting.

[Sombre]

Well not having experience of late game MP I'll concede the point. I personally still think trying to branch into blood without blood mages isn't a sound use of time and resources, if you're playing to win. I might do it myself however, because it's fun.

I don't take the fact that winning non-blood MP nations do it as a guarantee that it's effective either. Even the very best players will always do some things that aren't optimal on their path to winning. If you're a great player but you love,.. say,.. bog beasts, so in every game that you play (and you win a lot of these) you use them, does that mean bog beasts are effective units and a useful part of a winning strat?

[llamabeast]

Can't keep away from the bog beasts can you Sombre?

[CUnknown]

Velusion is right, Blood Hunting even with just scouts can really pay off sometimes. Especially or large maps, or with any race that has a forge bonus (EA or MA Ulm, LA Caelum). I know you don't get your forge bonus on many Blood items, but it does work on sanguine rods, blood stones, the sceptre of corruption, soul armor, etc. With Ulm, blood stones (and also black hearts) are the entire reason I empower with blood, it is soo worth it. If I get any summons out of the deal, they are just icing.

[K]

Its very tempting to try blood as Patala, so here is what you'll be facing:

To be a real Blood Nation you need three things:

1. Cheap blood hunters (blood 1 usually, but a dowsing bonus doesn't hurt).

2. Powerful Blood mages. Basic non-summoning blood magic required blood 4 or 5 if you want to cast more than one spell a battle.

3. Good Blood summons to round out the blood list. The hero time required to get a pack of demons out of the basic list tends to be prohibitively high.

Now, as Patala, you only meet criteria #3. The Lanka blood summons are arguably the best blood summons in the game(though Mictlan is very close). The downside is that they are great with a strong bless and since you'll need a blood god you won't be getting them in their most powerful form.

As for blood hunters, you have a few choices:

A. Lamia Queens. Many get blood, and even more have lots of death and nature.

B. The red demon women who come in at like Blood 3 or 4 have blood 1 if you cast Gift of Reason on them. With that expense in nature gems, you might just want to go lamia queens.

C. Dakini, Vampires, and Heliophagus/Mandahas come in at 6, 7, and 8 respectively, and all are good at blood to a greater or lesser degree. If you consider that Empowering a guy at blood 1 costs 50 slaves and a Dakini is like 66 and a vampire is like 77 or 88, you can easily see why summons are a good deal. The downside is the huge research required.

So now that we have the basic situation outline, here are your options:

-Rise of the Hidden Blood God. Make an awake powerful blood god with Blood 9 or so, and set him to blood hunting ASAP. He'll make 10 or so blood slaves a turn so you can empower a Scout in Blood every five or so turns(which shortens as blood hunters come on line). Focus research on other things like powerful battle magic and around turn 40 or so when you have a blood economy humming along start your blood research and start making demons.

-Late Corruption. Make an awake and powerful blood god and shoot for blood 6. Don't spend a single slave until you hit Blood 6 and then make as many Dakinis as possible (or 7 and Vampires).

-Uncovered Knowledge: Shoot for Alteration 5 for the Mother Oak(blowing all saved nature gems) and then Conjuration 6 for Lamia Queens and then blow all of them on Lamia Queens. Take all blood mages and hunt with them, turning your blood slaves into things like Bloodstones.

Other helpful notes:
-Don't build a lot of labs. Scouts are cheaper as a way to ferry blood slaves around( remember that few games go past 100 turns, and two 20 GP scouts cost as much as a lab after 177ish turns). Keep one lab within one move of a blood of a few blood provinces and then fortify it.

-Don't defend with Blood hunters. Between barbarians and surprise enemy attacks, its simply better to set hunters to Retreat and pick them up later, since even if you win the battle the extra unrest will make hunting nonviable for a turn anyway.

-Blood Stones. One of the best and cheapest items in the game. Make them in large numbers.

-Devil Contracts. Astral mages set to cast Returning can make devils indefinitely, regardless of Horrors. Live and learn.

-Astral Corruption. It ends the game for non-blood powers, and its one of the few spells that gets regularly cast with 999 gems. Nuff said.

More later....