Learning to love Resources - Page 2

KissBlade · #11 December 7th, 2007, 02:14 AM

It shouldn't effect forts. The discount is incredibly high.

vfb · #12 December 7th, 2007, 02:15 AM

The PD change to sloth sounds like painful death by micromanagement to me. If I want 3PD in every one of my 120 provinces to prevent sudden loss of empire to a horde of scouts, that's painful to check and fix every turn. Maybe capped at a minimum it might not be so bad?

Ironhawk · #13 December 7th, 2007, 04:12 AM

PD should never go down. Not ever - it might be thematic but as vfb says, it will just add micromanagment.

mathusalem · #14 December 7th, 2007, 05:58 AM

I like the affect of the PD, but the discount on build time is to powerful at level 2 => why not, only at level 3 to make it attractive ?

cleveland · #15 December 7th, 2007, 10:20 AM

Adding +1 turn of construction for each level of sloth should be all you need to change the "sloth3 = default" phenomena.

DrPraetorious · #16 December 7th, 2007, 10:21 AM

That isn't generally my play style, but okay, no PD degeneration - I agree that anything which increases micromanagement is a non-starter.

KtB - let's assume that you build 20 forts over the entire course of a 50 turn game.

Furthermore, let's assume that every single one of them is a walled city. That's 24,000 gold. Each 10% is 2,400 gold.

Over 50 turns your income from your *capital alone* is 20,000 gold base, each level of order is 1,400 gold. So, assuming you have only that 1 province, and build 20 forts, the gold bonus would be slightly bigger than the bonus from Order.

I agree that it's a big bonus - and that 5%/level would still be attractive for anyone wanting to cover their territory with Forts, so maybe 5% instead. But it's hard to imagine circumstances where the 10%/level would be game-breaking.

Lazy_Perfectionist · #17 December 7th, 2007, 02:09 PM

I'm not certain productivity needs changing, but 30% of unused resources is way too much.

At 400 resources, that's 120 gold a turn.
120 PD is still a long ways off, but 20 isn't.

DrPraetorious · #18 December 7th, 2007, 02:46 PM

Well... this is gold that *must* be spent on province defense.

So take a standard empire, and add up all the resources you get, and compare to all the resources you get.

If 10% of your resources = 7% of your total gold, then you could claim that this is somehow equivalent to a level of Order.

KissBlade · #19 December 7th, 2007, 06:59 PM

Quote:

DrPraetorious said:
That isn't generally my play style, but okay, no PD degeneration - I agree that anything which increases micromanagement is a non-starter.

KtB - let's assume that you build 20 forts over the entire course of a 50 turn game.

Furthermore, let's assume that every single one of them is a walled city. That's 24,000 gold. Each 10% is 2,400 gold.

Over 50 turns your income from your *capital alone* is 20,000 gold base, each level of order is 1,400 gold. So, assuming you have only that 1 province, and build 20 forts, the gold bonus would be slightly bigger than the bonus from Order.

I agree that it's a big bonus - and that 5%/level would still be attractive for anyone wanting to cover their territory with Forts, so maybe 5% instead. But it's hard to imagine circumstances where the 10%/level would be game-breaking.

30% savings on forts is pretty huge since late game, everyone stocks up on forts to protect against remote SC/thugs warping in and running amock. Not to mention an early mage fort is a significant advantage early. Yeah on paper, it doesn't look too bad but trust me, it's pretty big because keep in mind, it will most likely be /combined/ with order 3. It's not about this scale vs that scale in the savings department, it's that you're able to do even more with the abundance of gold you have, not to mention the additional benefits of it. I like either increasing pd idea or just simply stocking up the resources. I mean, military engines don't just simply stop producing armaments during peacetime.

DrPraetorious · #20 December 7th, 2007, 07:29 PM

I happen to think that you *should* be able to do more with scales in combination - especially in the late game.

If you read the other productivity whining thread, I suggested exactly the benefit you described

It is possible to combine a few really good scales with an awake SC God. Rather, I think, than punishing people for taking some poor scales (which some positions can get away with to a greater or lesser degree as things stand) that it would be better policy to provide a better, multiplicative reward for taking all-good-scales.