How do I Beat Back Rush Tactics?

[Velusion]

Baalz said:
Going with good scales can be a very viable strategy if you are playing a nation with strong non-holy units.

It's viable but more risky in the short run than going for an immediate strength bump like an awake combat pretender or a good bless.

...and if you've got some good combat mages to back up your stout troops you can most certainly hold off small uber blessed squads with very low level magic.

I don't agree with this... IMHO it takes more than the really early magic to hold back really good bless rushers. It also means you have to commit the bulk of your mages to fighting - which in the research scramble you'll fall behind.

I will agree that for some nations (Pan, Arco, Pythium) you can formulate a decent strategy around really good scales. However - when it comes to scaring away or stopping determined early bless rushers or elephants a combat pretender or counter bless will heavily strengthen a hand that would only otherwise have to rely on early magic.

Good scales can work well - but you're betting that your neighbors didn't invest their points into an early rush strategy or that you can avoid/counter it either through diplomacy or alliances... or that you can simply out play them.

[CUnknown]

It seems like there are enough points out there so that you can have an awake combat pretender or a lvl-9 bless while still pulling good scales.

Sure you might have to take sloth or misfortune or something, but doesn't everyone do that?

Order + magic + one of either production or luck (while selling off the other), you can normally afford an awake pretender with at least a little magic and not a horrible dominion.

Or do you mean like... -good- scales. Like -really good- scales?

If you're talking about positive scales across the board, then yeah, I agree with you. But, I'm not sure if you'd get any arguement about positive scales across the board being a bad idea like 99% of the time. I mean, I don't think Baalz is arguing for that kind of scale setup. Are you Baalz?

To me, good scales means like: Order-3, Sloth-2, Misfortune-1, Magic-3. That is not that hard to afford.

Do people actually try to pull off scales like: Order-3, Production-1, Growth-2, Magic-3? Does it ever work for anyone?

[Dedas]

As pointed out above extremely positive scales (even combining luck and order) can work out if you have the units to survive early game. Some nations can do this well, others not as well. Everything is possible of course (with some extreme power gaming).

[Zeldor]

CUnknown:

Even sloth 3 is part of good scales

[llamabeast]

I've gone for a really-good-scales strategy a couple of times, and it has worked very nicely. On the other hand, I'm beginning to think I'm obscenely lucky at this game. I've never been rushed in the early game - in fact I don't even remember ever having a war in the early game that I didn't start. It's kind of weird...

[Digress]

Never fear llamabeast there is a rush out there somewhere with your name on it

[Xietor]

I tend to take a sleeping sc. That gives you points for scales, and also to add some magic to your sc. But I have never played Ulm in a mp game. If i did my pretender would be awake and size 6.

Even Sleeping, a feared sc like the gorgon can keep you from being rushed. And in Fallacy, I was quick to tell my neighbors
what my pretender was and that it could be out as early as turn 9.

Few people want to rush and fail because then they are screwed. And the threat of a sleeping sc is almost as good as an awake one if they know you are not bluffing.

[Velusion]

CUnknown said:
It seems like there are enough points out there so that you can have an awake combat pretender or a lvl-9 bless while still pulling good scales.

Sure you might have to take sloth or misfortune or something, but doesn't everyone do that?

Order + magic + one of either production or luck (while selling off the other), you can normally afford an awake pretender with at least a little magic and not a horrible dominion.

Or do you mean like... -good- scales. Like -really good- scales?

If you're talking about positive scales across the board, then yeah, I agree with you. But, I'm not sure if you'd get any arguement about positive scales across the board being a bad idea like 99% of the time. I mean, I don't think Baalz is arguing for that kind of scale setup. Are you Baalz?

To me, good scales means like: Order-3, Sloth-2, Misfortune-1, Magic-3. That is not that hard to afford.

Do people actually try to pull off scales like: Order-3, Production-1, Growth-2, Magic-3? Does it ever work for anyone?

I consider your later example an example of good scales while your former one is simply mediocre. People do try to pull off the really good scales sometimes...

[CUnknown]

llamabeast - nah, you're not necessarily lucky. People don't tend to rush opponents they view as strong. Even if there is no reason to think you are especially strong in a certain game, if there's a newb closeby, that person is the one who gets rushed instead.

Also, I think being good at diplomacy, or even just open to talking, greatly lowers the chance you will get rushed.

[Lingchih]

And, being he game host, perhaps players do not want to rush you right away? Just a thought, since I have not played in any of your games.