Erk, Culture shock

[Wdll]

Just use mechanised infantry. With some cheap APCs that are barely more expensive than trucks.

[Marek_Tucan]

It is much more fun with trucks and not for all your infantry force You have to plan more when, how and where to use them, where to deploy reserves, how to evade even light artillery and mortars...

[Wdll]

It's not the low armor (none) that troubles me so much with trucks, as the extremely poor mobility in bad terrain.

[Marek_Tucan]

The more you are forced into really employing foot maneuvers with your grunts. Plus they may shoot only with what they carry along, no MG from battle taxi to support them.

[Nightblade]

Listy said:
I'm curious, how do you move them through terrain at anything close to a useful speed? Surely advancing at one hex a turn means your attack grinds along and is a sitting duck for arty, and runs the risk of timing out?

Artillery is a big problem for every kind of strategy one can plan, as you never know if the opposite side will target what they can spot or will make "random" arty missions and sometime devastate well hidden moving troops he never ever saw (on a PBEM a friend nearly killed 2 of my infantry squads and suppressed some more like this, without even knowing it ).

So as i hide my tanks in the beginning while having my infantry going forward (either on foot or on apc/ifv/truck), if the opposite side will plan arty missions on what he is spotting, it will rain on the infantry.

If i notice the artillery landing near my tanks, it is at 99% of of those random missions based on luck/wishfull guesses, and there i will move my tanks, as luck is a factor that did not always favored me before in SP:MBT

Timing out and moving pace is not a real problem for me :
-I don't play scenario based on few turn and huge maps that would force me to basically rush as quick as possible to the objectives and lose tanks without being able to prevent it (and so lose the win victory points conditions).
Playing on pure luck (rushing on the objective hoping the enemy will miss or the shell does not penetrate) is way too random for me.

-For the map size i usually play , there is no problem for slow advancing tanks to reach the objectives before the end of the game.

Basically, all really depends on how the enemy artillery missions will be planned.

But the more i play, the more i use tanks as firing support and not as offensive spearheads, because the loss of points when one tank is destroyed is really too much a penalty on your final score when you play a relative small battle (as it is what i do often in SP:MBT), often preventing you to get better than a draw despite you know the enemy has been beaten.

[PanzerBob]

I must say infantry moving on the modern battle space takes far thought and a lot more luck than in WW2 era battles. Smoke and light conditions, which were the infanteers friend, now make some moves suidical in some cases. Forces which are well matched in the latest vision and sighting equipment seem to mostly end up slaughtering each other. Especially when the opponents have human commanders. PBEM Campaigns may need a surrender or withdrawal feature to stop this, as a real commander would withdraw at more realistic combat losses than 80 plus percent. Sorry another issue for another place. However, don't get me wrong I'm still having a blast!!!

[Marek_Tucan]

You cannot withdhraw via map edge? Anyway, if your forces are in such a disarray you are unable to pull out a fighting withdhrawal to buy time for retreat, it is time for white flag anyway

[Mobhack]

In PBEM campaigns, you should have a "surrender or withdraw" option. Once you decide you need to give up, you retreat to your own baseline, and go onto the grey hexes to move your troops off-map.

Your opponent just may notice this, and try to stop you getting away with it thus necessitating some folks doing a delay mission as a rearguard (use support cannon fodder). And anyone left in a "kettle" might have some problems..

Once the enemy has taken all the objectives, and none of these are contested (no OK status troops within 500 metres AFAIR, and past the half way point), then the game should fail the engagement check and end it there. Now - I have not tested that, but it should happen so. You could always set up a scratch test PBEM campaign and play it against yourself to check that it does in fact work. Let me know the results of your test battle(s) - if the game does not terminate early then I'll need to check the end-of-battle code.

Assuming that it does work as I think it should, you have some options:
A surrender : You agree with your opponent that you will "run away, brave Sir Robin". He agrees not to interfere so that the termination happens reasonably quickly.
A withdrawal : You do not tell your opponent about your "brave Sir Robin" manoeuvre . Or you offer your surrender, but he decides to take no quarter and pursues you anyway !.
A nasty : You offer to surrender and then when he accepts you fall back to reorganise and set up a counter ambush and smack him one. A "False white flag" situation. Don't expect any mercy in succeeding battles, though!.

Cheers
Andy

[Mobhack]

As for the damage folks are reporting in PBEM campaigns - I think players are perhaps being too aggressive and "gung-ho" when playing against another human.

Time spent in early game recce and manoeuvring for position is seldom wasted. And if you have received too many casualties, try to hold back and play defensively. Fight for the draw. If you are hurting, then stop sticking your dangly bits further into the mangle and see if he continues to push his further into yours?.

This is not some artificial paintball game, where if 11 out of 12 of your team get themselves killed while the remaining guy sneaks round the back and "takes the flag" then his team wins because the flag is everything. Remember - the objectives are worth a maximum of 5250 (21 times 250) points, and that for a defensive game usually. Most VP comes from unit kills, as the whole point of warfare is the destruction of the enemy force, while preserving yours not a fixation on some artificial terrain objectives. The V-hexes are therefore there as a "swing" factor, nice to have provided you have not allowed your force to get badly destroyed.

- Victory hexes are totalled at the end of the game. So you don't have to lemming-charge them like the AI does.

- If you have 50% or a bit more of the V-hexes , you are generally doing fine. He'll have to come to you to get them, so set up a reception committee perhaps?. The AI always tries to go for all the VH locations - and look what happens to it! . If you are badly beaten up already - stopping here is advisable, just probe him to keep him honest perhaps.

- If you have less than the above V-hexes, then use the same strategy. Your opponent may do an AI lemming charge, so a reception committee set up may well work for you too!. Especially if you think you are in a healthier casualty position than him.

- If you are in a healthy position, but have trashed his large-ticket items enough, you can get a draw, or even a winning draw without taking many V-hexes (in a meeter none perhaps!) at all. 60 points (usual meeter value) times 21 is about 1200 points - 3 challenger 2, or 12 centurion Mk 3. Take that off him, and he can have all the VH without challenge so long as you rack up more kill VP overall, you will likely draw at least.

Play cautiously & kill him without being killed yourself, let the VH fall into your hands only as low-hanging fruit. I would not have a head-butting session over V-hexes, and only go for these as part of a general sweep-up of an already totally trashed opponent. If doing an assault or advance, you will have to take some - use lots of arty, concentrate on 1 cluster for starters. Only try for the others if your force is not spent taking the first one.

If you preserve your core, you will have less points to waste on fixing, and more points to spend on upgrades or to bank for a future bad hair day. The objective of the PBEM campaign is to score more points than your opponent, so an average of draws are just fine, so long as you get a few more wins overall than he does. Going for broke for the "total victory every battle just like a long campaign versus the AI" syndrome is simply not required. 2 draws and 1 marginal victory in a 3 battle PBEM series means you beat the other guy!.

Cheers
Andy

[Mobhack]

Oh - and one further point, if you are going to test for early termination. Ensure there are no troops assigned to appear late on in the game or the termination process will not happen till all such off map troops have arrived. So no reinforcements (not a problem in a PBEM test campaign, only in a scenario - to include user campaigns) - but no para drops plotted for turn 35 of a 40 turn battle either.

Cheers
Andy