OT: The ambiance and setting (part 3)

[Omnirizon]

Originally Posted by Endoperez

I wouldn't mind having a d different game set in the Dominions universe, and I'd like to create some content set in it sometime in the future (3d shorts, trailer-style, or something). It's just that it isn't as easy as you think, and it'd be a pity if (some of) your work went to waste because Shrapnel was forced to take action. The secret Illwinter project might be rpg set in the Dominions universe, for all we know, or they might have plans for the future of Dominions.



The time period is good, but if you're toning down the Dominions influences there's too little to go by.

Will there be magic? Will there be armies? Will there be sieges? Will there be monsters?


Since this is also athmosphere, how will in-game traveling be implemented? How long will it take if you just walk from a city to another? Let's say that they're relatively close to each other but not nearby; "three days' walk". Will you require food, shelter? If there's a river, can the character just walk through it, or will it be dangerous some way?

it's a roguelike. that should answer all your questions.


PS. I think the only roguelike in history that encountered copyright issues was TOME using content from Pern, and then it was using unique literary content, not reappropriations of history and mythology. I don't think the content of dominions is copyrightable, only the particular ways in which it organized it to construct its nations. however I'm moving into it into a 'new age' in which the organization and construction of nations and bits of story around them must necessarily change. I'm most concerned with avoiding doing something that KO is already doing, because I hear that he will not work on anything related to what someone else is doing (mod-wise, you know). I was thinking that since there is no Dom4, there is no danger of the dominions nations being portrayed in 16-17 century garb, so it would be a good setting. However, if there is too much overlap between this and IW's secret project, I would of course find some other setting.

(this is my conniving way of getting a better peek at aforementioned secret project)

[Endoperez]

So that's a yes for magic?
Is it based on dungeons, or does it also have wilderness?

It might help in borrowing Dominions mythology. Here's what Kristoffer had to say about Ed Kolis' attempt at Dominions roguelike back in 2004:

Originally Posted by Kristoffer O

Ha!

That's the best news in ages!

I would definitely play the game and I wouldn't mind doing some beta. I would like to aid in the development of such a game, but unfortunately I have other more urgent projects

Finish it (that's an order)!

From the seriousness of these threads, I thought this would be a major project, something similar to Mount & Blade, eventually aimed for commercial release. I suggest that you take that as a compliment.
For some reason, roguelikes are rarely bothered by copyright holders. That's probably why they're called rogues.

[Omnirizon]

sorry for the terse answer

it will be a roguelike, but more in the tradition of maybe a game like Uncharted Waters or Ogre Battle, or UW fused with OB. Overland travel, trading if desired, battles maybe, but mostly just RPG stuff; encounters and items and character advancement stuff. Encounters are largely with other humanoids, and not an unecessarily large host of random monsters including lice, rabbits, and newts (but there will be troglodytes). Also like Uncharted Waters and Ogre Battle, I'd like the player to be able to have an entourage, and for overland battle to switch to a tactical screen (tactical screen will be more like typical roguelike battle); city and dungeon encounters will already be on this tactical level. I suppose sieges are possible, but current goal is to get a system and character creation and ONE city working.

Lastly, unlike a roguelike, it will not be tiles (or rather, pixels are treated like tiles), thus objects can occupy more than one tile. objects will probably just be circular masks (or tokens) with an alpha-numeric glyph on top, which is good because it allows sprites to be added later. maps and such will be either handpainted or built in tile-like fashion randomly or from text files.

[Endoperez]

Originally Posted by Omnirizon

Lastly, unlike a roguelike, it will not be tiles (or rather, pixels are treated like tiles), thus objects can occupy more than one tile. objects will probably just be circular masks (or tokens) with an alpha-numeric glyph on top, which is good because it allows sprites to be added later. maps and such will be either handpainted or built in tile-like fashion randomly or from text files.

Very promising! I guess the "tiles" could include homages to magic sites.

You really should ask someone (perhaps Kristoffer, since he liked the idea earlier) for permission on using Dominions mythology, if you haven't done it already. As I said, it'd be a pity for any work go to waste.


Also, I'm not sure what kind of discussion you'd like to see. What different nations would look like, or what the city could be like, or what?

[Omnirizon]

Originally Posted by Endoperez

Also, I'm not sure what kind of discussion you'd like to see. What different nations would look like, or what the city could be like, or what?

yes. what I'm looking for is ideas on what happens after LA. concepts from 16th-17th century must be present. by this time, european influence had been felt around the world, and their trappings of discipline, efficiency, and rationalization were erasing old cultures all over the world in a very significant way.

For Man, Mari, Ulm, Boguras, et al it is probably most appropriate to map events of European history onto these nations. Does Ulm becomes fragmented in a sort of treaty of Westphalia, or somthing like that?

What happened in Patala? Do the Naga's maintain power? Does Man invade and colonize them? Who are these Naga's anyway? Where did they come from? Do the old divinities of Bandar Log and Kailasa return to save the land from the incursion of other nations? Or do the culturally unifying myths erode under the influences of new 'dominion'?

This isn't a war between pretenders for ascendancy like Dominions, so colonization is the new 'dominion'. who are these new pretenders? how do humans treat some of the old and fading fairy and fey figures?

What happens to Machaka? Does Mari invade and ship them off to be slaves? Or does their mountain god and Colossal Fetish fight it out and save this culture to develop in new ways?

What happens to Blood Magic? Does Man and other nations successfully eradicate it only to replace it with some other form of more insidious magical power?

Questions like these.

[MaxWilson]

Originally Posted by Omnirizon

For Man, Mari, Ulm, Boguras, et al it is probably most appropriate to map events of European history onto these nations. Does Ulm becomes fragmented in a sort of treaty of Westphalia, or somthing like that?

What happened in Patala? Do the Naga's maintain power? Does Man invade and colonize them? Who are these Naga's anyway? Where did they come from? Do the old divinities of Bandar Log and Kailasa return to save the land from the incursion of other nations? Or do the culturally unifying myths erode under the influences of new 'dominion'?[snip]

Unfortunately, none of this happens to any of these nations, because Hinnom (and Ashdod) Ate Everything. Except for the ones who wound up in the Dreamlands.



-Max

[Omnirizon]

Originally Posted by MaxWilson

Unfortunately, none of this happens to any of these nations, because Hinnom (and Ashdod) Ate Everything. Except for the ones who wound up in the Dreamlands.



-Max

that would make it Dreamlands vs the Giants then. sounds like an engaging world. I'll have to start a thread titled "Dreamlands martial arts vs. Giants martial arts"

[Omnirizon]

here is a decent example of what I'm looking for in pulling nations into this 'post-LA' age of 16-17 century settings. I chopped it together by simply doing a bit of research on England's Early Modern History. It segue's almost seamlessly with LA Man. Most nations should do this since a lot of LA is drawn from the trends of their historical counterparts leading into the 1500's (for example Man's declining magic).

			'Man' : "The feudal kingdom of Man has lost all magic of \
			earlier ages, even the holy orders of priests have been \
			abolished.  A parlimentary house has ascended and decreed \
			the Orders of Supremacy which grant a monarchy, rather than \
			a pretender and priesthood, soveriegnty.  In the new bifurication \
			of power there is tension between monarch and parliment. \
			Politics and philosophy rather than the theology and magic \
			now dominate discourse.  Research suffers under the presence \
			of any magic latency.  Outside theology is particularly \
			conflicting in Man's territory.  Man's dominion is effectively \
			their political philosophy, and its leadership and people \
			have the same religious zeal of old in spreading it.",

My intention with Man and a lot of other nations is to portray the eclipse of religion by politics and philosophy as not a stagist historical epoch, but simply the replacement of one 'dominion' by another. the new spreading of modernity and revolution and then onwards into colonialism is part and parcel of the classic dominion spread. Get it?

Magic for man isn't so much gone as it is being reimagined. The text above implies it is gone, but that's not exactly what I have in mind. I'm more thinking that the way man thinks about magic is changing with their politics and philosophy. basically, the effects of a magic scale might be completely reversed to reflect this.

I hope this clarifies what I'm imagining a little.

[Omnirizon]

Caelum might all become wingless (to represent the influence of Islam?)

these wingless might become influenced by raiders from N. Tien Chi (the mongols)

together they invade BL where the old myths and cultures become background (seems pretty typical for BL). the nation becomes culturally fragmented, or an admixture at best, of some of the monkey people, some wingless, and maybe some kind of TC influence.

[Aezeal]

Well I'd agree with was said before.. Just ask KO.. IMHO it's a very nice idea you have here and if you want to know what the person with most rights in copyright stuff etc thinks about it you'll just have to ask him. It's not like he's unreachable or something.. he's a frequent visitor. In the meanwhile I'd not diminish his accomplishments with dominions 1-2-3 too much