The Growth Scale

[Illuminated One]

Has someone compared Growth with Order already?

The main point is that Growth based income bonus grows exponentially while Order stays the same.
So with CBM and assuming that the province has the scales all the time a province with Growth 3 should break even with a province with Order 3 on about turn 18.
100.6% ^ 18 * 109% = 121% (vs 121% gold income from O3)
On turn 37 the province should have generated more gold over the whole game than an order 3 province. That's hardly the point where gold gets useless or someone drops several Armageddons (and after that O3 is useless as well).

Also if you spread your dom into provinces you can't take already (knights, elephants) growth benefits you but order won't.

So I'd say if you want to take luck and need money G3Lx isn't a bad choice instead of OxLx.

[Dragar]

Old age considerations and maintaining provs at >5k while blood hunting aside, I think growth scales are really a subjective trade-off between current and future gain. Can you grow fast enough from the extra points to justify a death scale? Are you confident of surviving long enough for growth 3 to pay off? It's just personal preference

Personally I like taking growth one quite often, for the old age benefit and because I just hate to see my income base declining - but I know that's a psychological comfort rather than a real advantage, as I am paying for it in design points and could probably be further ahead with another scale in order, luck or production.

Certainly one thing I've learnt is that if you take death 3 you'd better be primed to expand quickly, or you will fall behind.

[chrispedersen]

Also, Abysia suffers a *little* less from death scales.

[Renojustin]

Originally Posted by chrispedersen

Also, Abysia suffers a *little* less from death scales.

Why?

[OmikronWarrior]

Geez, didn't you read the strategy index? My Growth and Death by the numbers is there.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=35801

As the question itself, when do you get growth? Here's my answer:

1) When you want to pursue a high gold strategy and already have Order-3. Growth and Order are great together.

2) When you plan on recruiting a lot of old age mages.

3) When you plan on doing a lot of blood hunting (not some, but a lot).

4) When you've already taken misfortune, especially if you've picked up Turmoil for whatever reason.

Note, note all of these reasons require Growth-3, just some Growth. However, due to exponential population increases, you get more for your points buying the third point of growth than the first.

[Tolkien]

National trait: just like how MA Ulm isn't affected by the Drain scale.

That being said, you still generally don't want death on Abysia.

[Dragar]

EA and MA abysia don’t suffer the income penalty for death, the population suffers as everyone else. LA cop it all

[Tolkien]

Yep. Income and supplies won't decrease. The problem is, they're a blood nation, need high resources for their armies, and their mages suffer from a severe lack of youth. That being said, Growth is kind of necessary with Abysia.

[cleveland]

A nation with a Growth scale is kinda like a turkey.

Things are really great for a while...your armies are fat and your treasury is happy. Maybe you coughed up too many design points to fly, but heh, life's good, right?

Then someone drops a couple Thanksgiving Armageddons on your ***.

Edit: You censored ***? Really? What if it's used properly, like: The cart was hauled by the ***.

Edit2: I'll be damned.

Edit3: What?!?

[WraithLord]

Originally Posted by cleveland

A nation with a Growth scale is kinda like a turkey.

Things are really great for a while...your armies are fat and your treasury is happy. Maybe you coughed up too many design points to fly, but heh, life's good, right?

Then someone drops a couple Thanksgiving Armageddons on your ***.

[/i]

Nothing can take away gains that you already made due to growth. Extra income from growth translates to more research/armies/mages - which in turn can translate to controlling more turf and getting more income. The beneficial effect on blood hunting must also be considered.
So now on turn >60 someone dropped a few armeggedons. Your population dies. But you still have your research and gems and territories. And by turn 60 you will be much less income dependent. And less so with every passing turn.

I like the G scale. I won't take it always of course. It depends on my game plan but usually for big maps and with a non-rushing nation I'd tend to favor the G scale.