Armoured Car Tactics

[Lt. Ketch]

Infantry always spot better than AFVs. They don't have to peek through a 2" by 6" slit. That's one reason why you need to group the two so that Infantry can see the enemy and the AFV can shoot it. It's not due to any "recon" ability.

[narwan]

A little addition concerning spotting by vehicles;

Not all vehicles have the same chance to spot. Just imagine you're in the vehicle in question, the more it's closed off, the less you'll see out of it. What it means is that basically an open topped vehicle will spot better than a closed top vehicle (easier to look around). A turreted vehicle will spot better than a none turreted vehicle. The number of crew also matters; more crew means more eyeballs means better spotting. A 2-men tankette (closed top, no turret and just 2 guys) is just about the worst spotting AFV in the game.


Back to the topic of armored cars, I like to use them as my main striking force. I've played a number of (PBEM) games where I had no tanks at all, just armored cars. In the north african desert the british even had an armored brigade (the 4th if I remember correctly) without a single tank. Just armored cars for armor. And while the british excelled at armored cars they're a valid option for a lot of nations. Combine them with armored infantry in fast APC's and go for broke. When done correctly, there's little that can stand against it.

And yes, you can kick the **** out of anyone with them, even if they bring panthers and tigers. Been there, done that. The regular 2-ponder an get through almost any side armor. The littlejohn 2-pounder is just a dream (one of those nice dreams, not the fake ones). Knocks out Panthers from the side at medium ranges. The 6-pounder gun needs little comment and the 15mm BESA is excellent for long range action against soft targets. The dingo is an excellent point 'guy' and useful for distracting the enemy. They even have some flak armored cars to go along.
Did I mention I just love armored cars? Who needs thick armor when you have speed and some decent firepower!?

Narwan

[PanzerBob]

Gee Narwan DID you mention you love Armoured Cars???

That gave me a laugh, you bought up some interesting points, although those kind of forces certainly need to be brought into action with skill and I imgaine some luck I would think. Little Johns and 6 pdrs on AC's can be a surprise to the unsuspecting enemy for sure, I've had a few WTF!! moments with them, mainly because AC's can be a little disarming especially in PBEM battles. I've been on both ends of that deal!!

Bob out

[Reset]

I think it all depends on mission type,what type of force you have chosen,enemy faced,and overall disposition to recon.

As an example i am trying out a armored infantry battalion,long campaign,during meeting engagements the scouts are never meant to engage but locate enemy forces then fall back upon the main force while keeping in contact,in the safest manner with the enemy.Thereby allowing the main force to meet them in the most advantageous manner possible.

During advance or assault their main mission is to move ahead of the main force then once shots are fired to fall back while the heavy lifters take up the slack.

During Defend and Delay they are to determine the main axis of advance..then fall back.

At no time should lightly armed/armored scout units fight it out,and even if they do their first priority should be to find a way out of the engagement with the least risk to themselves.

What they do allow you to do:

Setup roadblocks or ambushes.

Concentrate your forces to meet an oncoming force or to find a weak spot and once gain to concentrate your efforts and firepower on a breakthrough.

A single armored car or scout is as valueable as a platoon of infantry or armor.

[PanzerBob]

No dsiagreement there, and well put especially for any out there who are trying to employ these assets properly.

Bob out

[gila]

Originally Posted by Reset

I think it all depends on mission type,what type of force you have chosen,enemy faced,and overall disposition to recon.

As an example i am trying out a armored infantry battalion,long campaign,during meeting engagements the scouts are never meant to engage but locate enemy forces then fall back upon the main force while keeping in contact,in the safest manner with the enemy.Thereby allowing the main force to meet them in the most advantageous manner possible.

During advance or assault their main mission is to move ahead of the main force then once shots are fired to fall back while the heavy lifters take up the slack.

During Defend and Delay they are to determine the main axis of advance..then fall back.

At no time should lightly armed/armored scout units fight it out,and even if they do their first priority should be to find a way out of the engagement with the least risk to themselves.

What they do allow you to do:

Setup roadblocks or ambushes.

Concentrate your forces to meet an oncoming force or to find a weak spot and once gain to concentrate your efforts and firepower on a breakthrough.

I was with you all the way until you made this statement.

A single armored car or scout is as valueable as a platoon of infantry or armor.

Can pltatoon of infr. be ko'd by a single shot?
And i always thought infr. is much better at bushwacking,but that may be only my opinion.

[Ramm]

Originally Posted by gila

Can pltatoon of infr. be ko'd by a single shot?
And i always thought infr. is much better at bushwacking,but that may be only my opinion.

But first they have to get there Rate of speed is important because warfare is inherently geographic in nature. The fundamental military problem in steel panthers is a space-time problem, as Nathan Bedford Forrest succinctly observed "getting there firstest with the mostest." For bushwhacking a platoon of infantry, a platoon of infantry would be best but against the side/rear armor of an AFV a swift and well armed scout car is the choice that produces the goods

Andrew

[narwan]

Marek is right. The story of polish cavalry charging german armor with lances is a myth. Never happened. But it makes for a good story so it keeps getting repeated including by people (and historians) who should know better.

@Marek
Wasn't there another incident near the end of the war in Poland where a polish cavalry force, or part of it, had to move through a german armored formation that was blocking their escape route to Rumania?

Narwan

[Ziploc]

Well I can't provide the definitive answer on Polish lancers but some interesting perspectives have been preseneted on armoured cars.

Reading Reset's appreciation of recon assets and employment reminded me of my approach to other wargames in the past which has been to strive to move aggressively and fight defensively. Certainly armoured cars can provide part of the advance guard to secure the terrain or objectives which will dictate the course of the ensuing battle.

[Marek_Tucan]

That's what the article states. The Polish cavalry charged German infantry Bn, which got dispersed, the armor came in after that, caused casaulties and forced the Poles to retreat. Tanks came in the next day, and on that day the war correspondents came as well, so they saw Panzers and dead cavalrymen on one place...