Balance Issue? (From a total newb)

[llamabeast]

Loads of priests as well. Churn them out. Also although I've not used them, I think giving Herald Lances to commanders and setting them on "Cast spells" can be useful.

[Sombre]

Yeah herald lances and flambeaus wreck ermor.

[NTJedi]

Originally Posted by sevenwarlocks

Hi everyone,

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Granted, this is a newb perspective, but this seemed like an H-Bomb tactic that nothing could really stop. Enemines can banish you, true - but it makes no difference because you're producing and attacking with undead in such huge numbers.

The AI opponents have several weaknesses... one of them is not being able to handle a death scale or an enemy nation which uses a death scale such as ERMOR.
Another major weakness of the vast majority of AI opponents is that they are not able to expand into the water provinces. Any map with water provinces offers the human opponents an advantage over the vast majority of AI opponents... so it's typically best to avoid maps with water unless you use the few nations which can enter the water.

Here are some other tips as well to continue keeping the game interesting:

If you're seeking stronger and healthier AI opponents for the entire game... I recommend using the map edit commands to provide all of them with at least 1 growth scale. The death scale will hurt AI opponents more than anything by mid and late game. While a human opponent can handle provinces with low/decreasing population the AI will wither and flop like a dying fish. Giving all AI opponents at least 1 growth makes a huge difference and more fun challenge.

I also recommend not playing any maps with water UNLESS using only the AI nations which have the skill to enter water provinces such as EA Argatha; LA Atlantis; etc., . The vast majority of AI opponents have ZERO skill for attacking water provinces which provides a massive advantage for the human player. Once a human player controls a handful of water provinces the vast majority of land AI opponents cannot attack them.


Now if you're seeking a strong knock you off your seat challenge then do the following using map edit commands:

1) Using start location command in the map file setup yourself on the far left middle or far right middle of a land only map.

2) Using start location command in the map file setup EA Niefielheim on the opposite side of the map from where you are starting.

3) Using the scale commands provide EA Niefielheim with +3 Growth; +3 Order; +3 Luck; +1 Productivity. The +1 productivity will help Niefielheim from buying a massive amount of weak independents... not much, but it helps.

4) Using #knownfeature provide the starting location of EA Niefielheim with the magic site called Library. This will allow the AI opponent to research at a more competitive level.


Then play your SP game and watch the graphs as a powerful AI opponent grows in the distance.

Now it's possible you're a veteran SP player and even using the above 4 commands still don't provide the challenge you seek... thus add the following:

5) Using the poptype command add the command into the map file only for the first 50 provinces which surround the capital of EA Niefielheim. This allows more of his troops to be specific from his nation and less stupid weak AI independents.

6) Using the commander command provide EA Niefielheim with 5 or more SuperCombatants... which includes the equipped gear. This will increase its rate of expansion and allow for some interesting late game battles.

7) Using the knownfeature command provide the capital with an additional magic site which may include discounted casting and/or a higher gem income.

8) Using the god command provide EA Niefielheim with a double; triple or quadrapule blessing. Also equip the god with good and/or unique items. I'd recommend using a size_3 or size_4 god for AI opponents which helps keep them from sending their pretender into the arena death match.

9) Provide EA Niefielheim with an extra province or two or three somewhere on the map which has a castle; temple and lab. Add moderate to high level immobile spellcasters which greatly increase its defense. If desired add a few magic sites as well.

10) Using the Allies command provide the a few allies between some AI opponents. I wouldn't recommend having them all as allies unless you've setup a map where you're in the middle.


Using all the directions listed can provide even the most veteran player with a challenge.

[Gandalf Parker]

New players tend to miss that the game is not balanced one-on-one but more rock-paper-scissors. Often Ermor is pointed out as being unbalanced. Which it is if put up against someone like Ulm (heavy armor). Then later they figure out that Ulm is unbalanced when put up against Marignon (heavy in priests). While Marignon is unbalanced when put up against Ermor (lots of undead).

As long as there is someone that is setup to handle someone else, the game is balanced. (kudos to the devs for choosing one of the most difficult balancing acts to do)

[thejeff]

NTJedi: Not to hijack this thread too far, but I'm curious as to why you picked Neifelheim? I don't think I've ever really noticed how well the AI does with it, but it seems to have all the traits I'd associated with a nation the AI couldn't handle well.

Strong SCs. Strong sacred troops with no H3s. Blood. Generally lousy non-capital troops. Mages are expensive and not particularly good for artillery.
I'd expect the AI to do its best with strong regular troops and good general battle mages. Since it doesn't seem to consider the bless when buying troops, it'll never have a lot of sacreds and if it does it often won't bother to bless them. It won't build SCs and has trouble using them even if you build them in.
But good solid groundpounders and cavalry, along with fireball or bladewind type of casters. That's what it can handle.

Not that most of your suggestions aren't good. They'd certainly make any AI nation tougher, I'm just wondering why you chose one that doesn't play more to the AI's strengths. Or at least what I see as its strengths.

I'd also suggest using one of the Better Independents mods, instead of mucking with dozens of provinces by hand.

[DakaSha]

jeff please check your forum pm messages...

[quantum_mechani]

Originally Posted by Gandalf Parker

Then later they figure out that Ulm is unbalanced when put up against Marignon (heavy in priests).

Marignon is certainly not afraid of Ulmish armor. Heck, even if they _did_ mass priests against Ulm (which would be silly), smiting is a fine counter to armor.

Dominions balance seems to have little to do with rock-paper-scissors; I'd describe it as something more like scattershot. Enough options, and on the whole some will end up being counters to others. Which as I see it is one of game's real strengths, organic as opposed to artificial balance allows you to truly feel you are creating innovative tactics.

[Omnirizon]

yeah. rock-paper-scissors is the approach to balance taken in the gaming industry most often -- just about every RTS and class-based MP (world of warcraft, team fortress 2, etc). The exception being Guildwars (and of course dominions), which also takes the scattershot approach and then ex posto facto balances (also like dominions).

and yes, IMHO scattershot is by far the best method. it is certainly given over to deeper, more creative gameplay. GW players often refer to themselves as doing "research" as they experiment with builds. just as with most dom nations, the 'classes' have very loose defining features and are mainly just the base skillsets from which players build classes. With team play there's a whole other dimension since member units can be designed to fit tightly within the team, and the 'build' goes beyond each individual character and becomes the team; such that when players say 'build' they may refer to a character or an entire team.

dominions is my fave strategy, and Guildwars is my fave MMORGP (and I ONLY do the MP). sigh... to bad I sold my account during the period of time in which I had a non-intel based computer.

[Illuminated One]

@thejeff

I found Niefelheim one of the strongest AI players when I started the game.
A giant troop (30 gold) can kill 3 human troops (10 gold) without getting killed. And that's all it's facing from other AIs/noob players.

[Gandalf Parker]

Whether or not an AI does well requires many tests. Things such as map size, era, various random settings, AI level, etc can all affect the results of a nation from one game to the next. So peoples impressions tend to vary depending on their favorite game settings.

In particular, whether the AI takes the stance of defense, standard, or offense. With Niefelheim it might be particularly important. I think that Nief is better at a defensive stance than an offensive one.