Suhiir's Revised USMC OOB #13 - Page 2

thatguy96 · #1 January 19th, 2010, 07:59 PM

Its interesting that the .30 cal system is in the notes like that in my opinion. The Army didn't start doing testing on the systems that would lead to the XM1 until well after the Korean War.

Do you have any more on the HMX-1 armament tests?

Suhiir · #2 January 19th, 2010, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thatguy96

Its interesting that the .30 cal system is in the notes like that in my opinion. The Army didn't start doing testing on the systems that would lead to the XM1 until well after the Korean War.

Do you have any more on the HMX-1 armament tests?

Nope, just that one post-it on the subject.
I wasn't really looking into specific weapons as much as availability dates and capabilities - if a helo can carry rockets I didn't worry too much about the type of launch system or warheads

Suhiir · #3 January 19th, 2010, 10:35 PM

thatguy96,

As early as spring of 1949 the Corps had conceived of using helos firing rockets in an anti-tank role, and by 1951 HMX-1 had tested the mounting and firing of machine guns and 2.75 inch rockets from an HTL-4.

The instability and limited development of armed helicopters was not stopped, neither did it become a front burner project. It was to be a long and winding road from these early efforts to the Corps' first fully capable and deadly gunship.

Contrary to opinions which became popular among early gunship advocates, there were valid, practical reasons for this delay. Instability and limited lift capability were engineering problems more easily solved than other issues. The combination of budget limitations and force structure provided CMC with more difficult choices. The budget limited the number of squadrons and airframes. If you want two squadrons of gunships, give up two squadrons of attack aircraft. The Corps had to be prepared to respond to a variety of threats all over the world, and the inter-related issues of force structure and doctrine were based on this. It was not at all obvious that swapping attack aircraft for the gunships which could be developed at that time would be a smart action to take.

You might want to try to find a copy of "Whirlybirds, U.S. Marine Corps Helicopters in Korea" by LtCol Ronald J. Brown.

thatguy96 · #4 January 19th, 2010, 11:16 PM

That's one of about a half dozen reports I want to get a hold of. Its available for download online from the USMC website. However, there seems to be an issue somewhere along the line. I try and download it and it gets to about 15-20% and then times out.

Could you go to the site and see if you have a different outcome? I want to know if its just me.

redcoat2 · #5 January 20th, 2010, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thatguy96

That's one of about a half dozen reports I want to get a hold of. Its available for download online from the USMC website. However, there seems to be an issue somewhere along the line. I try and download it and it gets to about 15-20% and then times out.

Could you go to the site and see if you have a different outcome? I want to know if its just me.

I had the same problem downloading the Whirlybirds pdf at first. Then I right clicked on the link and chose "Save target as." I was then able to save it to my desktop without any problem.

I'll look at the Whirlybirds book later. At the moment I don't believe that there were any rocket firing helos in service before or during the Korean War.

thatguy96 · #6 January 20th, 2010, 11:30 AM

Hmm, I have the problem regardless of what method I choose. What browser are you using?

redcoat2 · #7 January 20th, 2010, 12:05 PM

Here it is.

Suhiir · #8 January 20th, 2010, 12:34 PM

Given the information from this discussion it seems I read too much into the armed helo experiments before and during Korea.
(Hey I was looking a the entire OOB not just helos

)
So I'm going to drop unit #630 (HRS Gunship) from the OOB. What availability dates do you for the H-34 Stinger? Best I have is 1960.

thatguy96 · #9 January 20th, 2010, 12:55 PM

On 17 August 1964, HMX-1 is directed to begin work on what would become the TK-1 kit. The kit was developed it 2 weeks and a demo flight firing first occurred on 8 September 1964. The first kits arrive in Vietnam in November 1964. The TK-1 was officially canned in April 1965. There's probably some amount of overlap between this decision and their actual removal from the field, but the armed UH-34D was apparently not well received, it being decidedly underpowered for the role.

The fact that the TK-2 kits on the UH-1E appear in May 1965 mean that you could probably just exchange one for the other.

Suhiir · #10 January 20th, 2010, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thatguy96

On 17 August 1964, HMX-1 is directed to begin work on what would become the TK-1 kit. The kit was developed it 2 weeks and a demo flight firing first occurred on 8 September 1964. The first kits arrive in Vietnam in November 1964. The TK-1 was officially canned in April 1965. There's probably some amount of overlap between this decision and their actual removal from the field, but the armed UH-34D was apparently not well received, it being decidedly underpowered for the role.

The fact that the TK-2 kits on the UH-1E appear in May 1965 mean that you could probably just exchange one for the other.

Thank you.