Adventures in Campaign Building by a Beginner

[scJazz]

10) Waypoints? What waypoints?

Seriously, do not bother! Armored cars, Scouts, some helos don't even pay attention (this is the part we know). If it isn't on map on turn 0 they might still not pay attention. If Pyro is not your drinking buddy to repeat endlessly what he learned almost certain fail.

Seriously, and on this one since... it involves code and is an ancient change. Giving us 125 possible useless changes as opposed to 10 isn't actually useful! What would be nice is some system where I click'they'go! Something lacking in my desire to get Scout Helos to actually advance... to you know... Scout.

Comments about Scout class behavior etc etc etc... invalid.

If I click it should go. The end!

Also doing @#$% math to move reinforcement Turn NOT ZERO waypoints around... also #@$%in useless!

[Suhiir]

Scouts, Armored Cars, and other "scout class" units are known to ignore waypoints the first turn of a scenario and bee-line toward the nearest non controlled VP hex.
Starting turn two they will (generally) follow any waypoints set for them IF they haven't spotted anything turn one.

[DRG]

........which is why "beginners" shouldn't write how to ( or not how to ) use features in the game until they are experienced.

Yes, waypoints are a quirky black art that can be frustrating to use but they have been mastered. Yes, a simple system would be desirable but there are always 50 code issues MORE IMPORTANT to do every time we build a patch but there's a reason the game throws waypoints out the window when something more "interesting" occurs on map and if it didn't people would complain about that too.



Don

[DRG]

Originally Posted by scJazz

9) OOB designers note...

Using a Mech Infantry Formation that has...
B0) Inf
B1) Transport
C0) Inf
C1) Transport
(ETC ETC ETC) is not cool!

This is something that is being checked but there are over 16,000 formations in the game and there is no way to find them without checking each one manually as there are simply too many different ways for a platoon .....( the problem exists mainly in platoons )....... can be "wrong" to automate the process to zero in on the ones that are borked so it has to be done one by one by hand.

The US OOB has a number of them, some nations have very few like this. Given the number of formations to check this may take a couple of patches to find them all but we are endeavoring to ensure the most commonly used OOB's have been checked for this next patch


Don

[Suhiir]

Originally Posted by DRG

........which is why "beginners" shouldn't write how to ( or not how to ) use features in the game until they are experienced.

Don

On one hand it is a way for other "beginners" to become aware of some of the pitfalls they'll have to negotiate when they venture into scenario design.
On the other it does bring a smile to my face as I recall running face-first into many of those same pitfalls.

[scJazz]

Originally Posted by DRG

........which is why "beginners" shouldn't write how to ( or not how to ) use features in the game until they are experienced.Don

Don... this isn't a howto... It is kind of a running guide of the issues confronting a beginner. Things that I wish I knew before I started.

I mean seriously in some post on these boards Suhiir mentions figuring out how to set waypoints for a unit arriving as a reinforcement after Turn 1 but after that the thread goes kind of silent.

And apologies... I know the waypoint code must be horrific not the least of which problem would indicate that it leads the XYzero unit to be in front... but being a newb at this all I want is a unit/formation to move where I want it went I want it and to stop when bad things start happening and resume when bad things have died or they have. It is literally the number one issue facing me while designing a scenario.

[Suhiir]

Originally Posted by scJazz

... but being a newb at this all I want is a unit/formation to move where I want it went I want it and to stop when bad things start happening and resume when bad things have died or they have. It is literally the number one issue facing me while designing a scenario.

Since we're dealing with your typical brain-dead AI here (and this is NOT a slur of WinSPMBTs AI code, just a "fact" about ANY games AI) it seldom does what you want as it can only do what it's programmed to do.

In the case of move ==> Fight ==> resume movement it will do that ... sorta.

A formation set with 10 turns worth of waypoints (30) for movement but on turn 6 (after using 18 of the 30) it gets attacked. It takes 3 turns for it to eliminate the threat, 3 turns the AI continues to check off waypoints ... so when it resumes movement on turn 10 rather then heading to waypoint 19 it attempts to go to waypoint 28, the 1st of the 3 waypoints it is programmed to follow on turn 10.

That help?

[DRG]

Waypoints were never intended to be more than a way to point formations in a general direction until contact with the enemy and are the perfect example of battle plans that work fine until first contact with the enemy and that is as far as anyone should expect them to work. Anything more than that and you are left wondering why your Fiat 500 won't do what a Ferrari does on pavment and HMMWV off road..because it was never intended to do that.

In the above example the "AI" will attempt to catch up to the point it's "commander" expected it to be on turn 10 the quickest way it can do that. DO NOT blame it for taking shortcuts becasue it's "following orders" and those orders are "on turn ten be HERE"

Bottom line is if you push the envelope don't complain when it doesn't work but DO experiment with it becasue you might find you can push it to do something you CAN use and that's why we increased the number of waypoints it will accept. It works great as a random patrol route for example or moving through terrain where contact is not expected to get into the enemy rear areas but DO NOTexpect it to execute your battle plan to turn 65. NOT going to happen and it was NEVER intended to do that




Don

[wulfir]

I find waypoints useful.

It is possible to make AI formations move where I want them to, broadly speaking. AI formation left without waypoints will in many cases take some other route.



And before it comes up; it is possible to make parts of the AI force conduct movements, spoling attacks etc while other elements defend - and it is possible doing so without changing their movement ability, i.e. making them imobile.