French OOB

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

I still think you can back off the 105mm dates as suggested or at least back to 2010 from 2020, based on the French Army site provided that they didn't list it. However I have sent a further email just a few minutes ago to the Ministry of the Army. They do allow for information requests of that nature on the French side of the site. Basically asked for the 105mm artillery used after WWII and when it was taken out of service by both the Regular Army and the Foreign Legion.
The AUF-1/AU-F1 units are fine as they stand I believe as the 105mm search as crossed paths with that unit somehow on the web a few times. I'll be shutdown after Sunday for a few days so I hope someone will answer before that.

I BETTER HIT THE RACK BEFORE SOMEONE DOES ME BODILY HARM.

Regards,
Pat

[DRG]

I found a copy of a IISS book on world military equipment and there were 149 105mm artillery piece in the French army in 1992.

Pity I don't have copies of every year but I don't so sometime between 1992 and maybe 2010 they went OOS with the French Army.


Don

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

I'd say we can mark that as progress from where this "project" started from. I'd almost...I would bet that most of those 105mm tubes belonged to the Legionaries as they would have need of an air portable artillery tube to support their mission as a rapid deployment unit.

Still awaiting my responses to my requests as discussed elsewhere.

Regards,
Pat

[Delta Wing]

I'm sorry for the late reply, but university kept me busy.

I tried to look for solid information in english but I didn't manage to find much except for this OOB from 2003. France however had a military reform in 2008 so the OOB may not be fully up to date.

The 120mm mortars were and in some case still are handled by battalion level recon and support companies. These are already represented in the game by the CEA RI and CEA companies which have the mortars. French army website says that 120mm mortars are currently used by artillery regiments and marine (RIMA) forces. They might have been once upon a time have been used by Legionaries as company support weapons but nothing I managed to find implies they still are. The french army's website says that contemporary Legion support platoons have 81mm mortars and Milan ATGMs.

I haven't found anything that would imply that contemporary Legion companies would have radicaly different organization or armament compared to regular French infantry units. Their battalion/regiment level organization is peculiar but the bulk of legion infantry forces (2nd regiment, 5 infantry companies) is basicaly light mechanized infantry with VABs or VBCIs.

Outside of the 2nd regiment the FFL has the 3rd regiment with 2 companies. It's garrisoned in the French Guyana. The french army website isn't very wordy on their exact armament, except that their support units also have the 81mm mortars. There's also a small detachment in Mayotte, near the Comoroos. For WINSPMBT these two formations are military curiosities, unless someone fancies modeling a France vs Brazil war or anti-poaching actions the 3rd regiment has been involved in.

and yes, the french brigade/regiment level organization is a horrible headache.

To put it shortly, the majority of Legion infantry units follows the organization of other light mech units with VABs or VBCIs, which is in turn constrained by the carry capacity of these vechiles. For VAB it's 10, for VBCI it's 9. This in turn follows nicely the purported standard squad organization of the French army 8 men, split into two fireteams. Another one revolves around the ABL AT4's, another one has the Minimi and LGI. (Former?) forum user Urban has detailed the organization in fine detail.

And about the support platoon Milans, once again this info is based on what it says on the official french army website.

According to the 2003 OOB the 12.7 HMGs are near ubiquitous and the 7.62 MGs much rarer.

Apilas was only as being used by marine units by the french army site. The current OOB has some heavy infantry units with Apilas instead of ABL AT4 mixed in infantry and mech infantry formations. I think this is a fine solution, especially if you could add a heavy infantry/mech infantry unit which has the ABL AT4 instead of Apilas.

At least the Mech Legion units should follow a similar line IMO, and the foot/truck legionaires should at least have an option to pick weapons in line with the current French organization. This is so that just in case that the French actually use Apilas more than they say and that if the smaller Legion units use different weapons than usual they can still be represented while offering the option to pick the (IMO) more likely choice.

Still no idea on the flamethrowers.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

A ton of information of French use of flamethrowers during WWI. Nothing after that though. It seems the USA/USMC were the biggest users of it after WWI as a "MANPAC" system. Most other countries shifted to the Flame Tank as it had a greater range and dare I state the obvious, better protection. Vietnam both marked a resurgence of the "MANPAC" and it's end, as the M9A1-7 was replaced by the M202A1 Flame Grenade Launcher during the end of that war.

I found a couple of refs of a French ENERGA AT rifle grenade. However most sources in regards to the initial ENERGA 75mm grenade point to use only by Belgium, U.S., UK, South Africa also Rhodesia was mentioned many times as well. The answer will have to come from a reliable Pub. or French source. If I get an answer to another inquiry from the French MOD, I 'll push the envelope further on this question. The improved version below is the one I saw mentioned for French use a couple of times. The original ENERGA grenade was made between ~1950 - 1953. There were several users of the "Super" as well.
http://articles.janes.com/articles/J...e-Belgium.html

This ref. (From 1991.) if someone has it or an older or newer version would mercifully end our agony on this, but what's a little pain anyway!?! After all when I see my Dentist, she just drills away when required, I hate needles! Have a long day tomorrow, have a great week!

Regards,
Pat

[centurion77]

Concerning flamethrowers, the last I heard of them in French service was 1982 and I am certain they have been phased out.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Well the 105mm got into my head again earlier today, I should've been born a Bulldog, anyway no response from the French MOD to date except that they acknowledged they recieved my email, how nice.
So I just threw another "Hail Mary" and asked Jane's if they could answer the question on when the 105mm went out of service, maybe since I mentioned that the FMOD have not responded that it'll spur them on to do so...yeah and I'm expecting snow here in SE GA. any minute now also!?! Still trying.

Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Don,
Because it's no fun going to bed without frustrating yourself first, I thought I'd try a "shift in direction" concerning the French 105mm. Here's what we know during WWII the French were using the USA 105mm M101 and it is well documented they continued it's use through the mid fifties in Indochina, Algeria and beyond. By the the early sixties it has "disappeared". A) So did they buy the USA 105mm M102 that became available ~1963? No. B) We know they went very nationalistic in the early sixties as well, so did they redevelop their own program again? Well I've been unable thus far to uncover any evidence of that, except on an SP platform (AMX MK 61 105mm) which is in the game I believe. C) We have your earlier post in this thread and based off your source puts them still in possession of them until ~1992 I believe it was. D) The below ref. shows that GIAT which was French Government controlled I believe started developing the LG1 105mm Mk II ~1987 though only for export.
http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product573.html
http://www.military-today.com/artillery/f1_gct.htm
So I believe the we're back to ~1995 or sooner as your book indicated and that's in line when the AU-F1 GCT 155mm ceased production in 1993. The AU-F1 GCT 155mm and CEASAR 155mm are the only artillery in use with the French Army at this time.
Obviously the "Hail Marys" didn't work out French MOD or NEXTAR. I miss the Aussies, at least they responded to our tank unit questions.

I'm off to the rack.

Regards,
Pat

[DRG]

I won't be making any change until I start work on the OOB's next fall . Maybe someone will come up with something definitive by then.

This does, however, point out why OOB work is a thankless PITA. The reason the same 105mm gun stays in service in the French OOB from 1946-2020 is because there is no info to be found. We ASSUME it must be wrong because it would seem a ridiculously long service life even if the nation were third world but there's nothing to be found so we either go with the best we have or leave it until we find something better or try an "educated guess" knowing full well all three options are probably wrong and at some point in the future someone will show up asking why this is still in service when the last one was used 1989 like EVERYBODY knew that.

Don

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Amen to that, and some wonder why I haven't been able to play the game , which I believe was last August sometime . But my Thai troops will have me back to fight the Chinese PLA soon enough before the Spring Offensive starts ! But in the meantime I contacted the French Army Museum in Paris, Conservatory Dept. This is a challenge, the Ethiopian T-72AG tank deal with the Ukraine is fast becoming my PITA !! Anyway here's their website and the email did get through the "post office" cleanly. Also the English translation is down (404 Error.) but, the Spanish one works great!!!
http://www.invalides.org/

Regards,
Pat