Making Hard Choices

[Amhazair]

Originally Posted by legowarrior

Yeah, I love the T'ien Ch'i for the most part.

What are good ways to get into Astral? Any decent summons that would allow a non astral nation (but with an astral pretender if necessary) get some astral access?

Not too many options unfortunately. With D magic you can get specters who have 2x 25% of having S. With D and E magic as well as a wasteland province you can cast Hidden in Sand. (excellent spell anyways) wich has a chance of giving you 0, 1 or 2 Dust priests who each have 33% chance of having 2S. And... that's about it really. (There's Golems and Ether Lords too, but they're massively expensive for 'just' breaking into S magic, and they both require S magic to cast.) S is one of the harder paths to break into.

[Shangrila00]

Meh, don't like MA TC. They aren't bad or anything, but EA TC and LA TC are so much more awesome that I always feel gimped with MA TC.

As for getting astral, the only definitely works thing is summoning Spectres. And that's way too expensive and produces a too crappy mage to do a lot of. If you take Magic 3 scales and luck, a S3 stealthy mage may join you. If you also take Order and Heat and have good earth income, Hidden in Sand is worth repeated castings. A strong blood nation also has a shot at one ice devil and one arch devil with astral, but they're uniques.

[Valerius]

As much as I like Eriu (and the current CBM version is very fun), if you aren't that interested in the stealth aspect of the game they might not be a good choice. Actually no stealth or blood rules out all my favorite nations.

What about Machaka? While it's not my style of play I think they're an interesting nation and have gotten some CBM boosts.

Originally Posted by legowarrior

What are good ways to get into Astral? Any decent summons that would allow a non astral nation (but with an astral pretender if necessary) get some astral access?

Spectres, golems, hidden in sand. Pretty sure that's it (aside from tarts of course). I'm still hoping for CBM to add some more options for breaking into astral.

Edit: Lol. Lots of responses to breaking into S. Forgot about ether lords.

[thejeff]

Originally Posted by Valerius

As much as I like Eriu (and the current CBM version is very fun), if you aren't that interested in the stealth aspect of the game they might not be a good choice. Actually no stealth or blood rules out all my favorite nations.

What about Machaka? While it's not my style of play I think they're an interesting nation and have gotten some CBM boosts.

Spectres, golems, hidden in sand. Pretty sure that's it (aside from tarts of course). I'm still hoping for CBM to add some more options for breaking into astral.

Edit: Lol. Lots of responses to breaking into S. Forgot about ether lords.

Don't forget that Lizard Shaman provinces are pretty common, even in MA. It's not a guarantee and they're only 1S, but they can start site-searching at least.

[legowarrior]

Originally Posted by thejeff

Don't forget that Lizard Shaman provinces are pretty common, even in MA. It's not a guarantee and they're only 1S, but they can start site-searching at least.

Piggy backing on my last question, what's the best way to get access to any paths, starting only with your pretender? What I mean is, how do I get access to air magic or nature magic if I don't have national access to it? Death is pretty easy, as long as you have 3 death, you can summon spell casters. Earth magic has the Troll king, which for 2 earth and earth boots is a done deal.

[Shangrila00]

Check the booster guide on the wiki. I think it's pretty complete, with the exception of the EDM additions in CBM. Summon Treant can give you the N/W and N/E crosspaths starting with just N, Great Krakens can give you W/B and a chance at E/N also, both of these in Enchantment. Asynja and Ember Lords can also get you crosspaths, but at Conjuration 8 and 9, you might has well get Tartarians for all your diversity needs.

On Eriu, you have 2 heroes with death. Unfortunately you have a ton of heros including a multi-hero, so even at luck 3, you might never get them in good time. If you do have the good luck to get those heroes though, you can use spectres to get astral and the E/D crosspath, then use the E/D crosspath to cast Hidden in Sand for all your fire/death/astral needs. Sadly, you can't get S3 with this, so no astral rings unless you get artifacts, which isn't going to happen with your craptastic research.

[Amhazair]

Originally Posted by legowarrior

Piggy backing on my last question, what's the best way to get access to any paths, starting only with your pretender? What I mean is, how do I get access to air magic or nature magic if I don't have national access to it? Death is pretty easy, as long as you have 3 death, you can summon spell casters. Earth magic has the Troll king, which for 2 earth and earth boots is a done deal.

The thread is slightly dated, (as it doesn't include the new 'EDM' summons, but those are usually not your best bet for diversication anyway) but most of your diversification questions can still be answered here.

[legowarrior]

I can do stealth, I just don't have much practice with it yet. I've always had a preference for Heavy Infantry backed up with ranged weapons.

[Shardphoenix]

What has me stumped though is how you diversify them, with W/N/E/A.

Plan A: Take 2 death on your pretender. Summon Lamia Queens. Now you have good D access. Forge Jade Mask for bonus points.
Plan B: Get underwater. Summon Ancient Krakens, give them Fish Amulets, conquer the world in the name of tentacles. For bonus points, use B-random landlubbing krackens to bloodhunt.
Plan C: Summon Shishis, Awaken Asynjas. Airdropping thugs+stealthy glamoured airdropping SCs FTW!

[Shardphoenix]

to cast Hidden in Sand for all your fire/death/astral needs

Sometimes, finding a suitable wasteland can be problematic.