seiv platinum: good idea? - Page 2

PDF · #11 May 15th, 2002, 10:48 AM

Geo,
My humble apologies, I didn't try your scenario

(I read the background, though...)

If it took you 30 min to do this, perhaps you can make a Star Wars setting in 3 hours, and Trek in 4 more ?

No ? damn ...

If Malfador isn't wanting to invest in an editor, why not letting fans do it themselves ? I suppose that if MM just gives away scen/save files structure we would have here some techies/nerds

that could do an utility - look at the nice Component Modder we have ...

.

geoschmo · #12 May 15th, 2002, 11:09 AM

An editor for the Scenario text files would probably be fairly easy. Easier I think than the components files, and we have several of those floating around.

The savegame file itself would not be so easy. You would have to have the source code for the game itself I think, and I seriously doubt that is something Aaron is going to give away. He hasn't even done that for SE2 or SE3 yet.

Geoschmo

mottlee · #13 May 15th, 2002, 11:13 AM

One of the things I like (hope it stays) is it's ability to run on older machines....I would like this to stay, I for one can not afford to buy a new machine every few months....Keep up the good work

PDF · #14 May 15th, 2002, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by geoschmo:
An editor for the Scenario text files would probably be fairly easy. Easier I think than the components files, and we have several of those floating around.

The savegame file itself would not be so easy. You would have to have the source code for the game itself I think, and I seriously doubt that is something Aaron is going to give away. He hasn't even done that for SE2 or SE3 yet.

Geoschmo

Why would be source code necessary ? IMHO only file structure would be - unless some weirdos compression algorithms are also used.
As an example look at what have been done with Baldur's Gate RPG : without any source code divulgation, fans did make impressive tools for EVERYTHING needed to make new adventures modules : NPCs, monsters, locations, items, plots, dialogues...

But well, I'd be unable to do any of this, so perhaps I'm just dreaming...

dmm · #15 May 15th, 2002, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by geoschmo:
An editor for the Scenario text files would probably be fairly easy. ... The savegame file itself would not be so easy. You would have to have the source code for the game itself I think...

You most definitely would NOT need the source code to make a savegame file editor. All that Aaron would need to supply would be an explanation of the savegame file's format, which would take him a few hours, at most. This would allow an interested 3rd party to make an editor. There are some issues that would need to be dealt with in order to prevent slimeballs from using the editor to cheat. But nothing that couldn't be handled pretty easily with a few lines of code and a nondisclosure agreement. The truth is, that SE is Aaron's baby and he doesn't want to let anyone else hold her. Understandable to some extent, but ultimately detrimental to the child.

(Caveat: I know that SE is not really a child. It is Aaron's intellectual property. So society has no say in what he does with it, other than to vote with our feet and money. It just bugs me to see a fine piece of workmanship not fulfill its potential, and hear people make lame excuses for the artisan.)

PDF · #16 May 15th, 2002, 12:05 PM

dmm,
Till now Aaron seems to have been quite open to allow any tweak/modding of the game. He even went as far as allowing players to CREATE scenarios, but did not supply the editor, seemingly out of time/business interest.
Additionnally it even looks like he authorized Hadrian Aventine to SELL his mods, that are made out of SE4 engine !

Perhaps I'm naive but I think he won't rebutt plea for giving info allowing 3rd parties to make this editor.

geoschmo · #17 May 15th, 2002, 12:13 PM

Dmm, I was not intending to make lame excuses. The fact is I know absolutly nothing about programming and what would be neccesary for such a scenario editor to be created. I was simply making an uneducated guess, as noted by my use of the words "I think".

I am on the same side as anyone who thinks a scenario editor would be a nice thing to have. However, I am also one of the few here who has not limited myself to wishing for a scenrio editor and actually made several scenarios, notwithstanding the current limitations.

Given a little time and work, I believe there is quite literally nothing that is possible in SE4 that cannot be setup in a scenario, with the exception of having it all setup and ready on turn 2400.0, if that is importatnt to you.

Would a bonified scenario editor make this process quicker and easier. Absolutely!

Is it possible to do without one? I think I and a few others have proven that as well.

I am one who prefers to do rather than complain, so when I make suggestions on this forum about ways to get around preceived or real problems, it is not because I am some kind of "Malfador groupie" or something. I just like doing things myself.

Forgive me if the tone of this post appears harsh. I am not trying to be harsh, only clear and direct.

Geoschmo

Captain Kwok · #18 May 15th, 2002, 12:44 PM

I would like to see a scenario editor for SE:IV but that seems most unlikely. As I have suggested before having starting tech levels as an option in game setup would be far easier to add (since he has existing code) and would almost solve 75% of the needs of scenario makers.

dmm · #19 May 15th, 2002, 11:54 PM

geoschmo: No problem, I didn't take your reply as harsh. I didn't mean to be harsh with you either, nor to accuse you of groupie-ness, nor to be ungrateful for the clever scenario workarounds that you and others have come up with. I'm just frustrated.

A savegame file editor (SGFE) would allow many things that a simple startup scenario can't do at all. A few examples:
1) Doing combat outside of SEIV and then forcing that onto the current game with the SGFE. Or having "house rules" for things like retreat.
2) Allowing events to occur that are not possible otherwise. Examples: Monster attack; extragalactic invaders; shifting warp point connections; unanticipated research breakthrough; civil war; mercenaries; pirates.
3) Allowing events to occur due to triggers rather than randomly. (The triggers don't have to be automatically scripted by SEIV. A human "galaxy master" or a GM program could handle that.)

OK, you get the idea.

geoschmo · #20 May 16th, 2002, 12:45 AM

Ok, I think I see where you are going with this. You are more interested in stepping into the middle of a game and making changes than you are actualy setting things up frmo the beginning.

These things are all actually possible without an editor, with a little creative setup beforhand and some "cooperation" from the players. But yes it would be more efficent with an editor.

I was actuially having a discussion just the other day with another modder about the posibility of setting up a game with a galaxy master that is actually a "Super Empire" that has access to tech and intel projects that the players don't have. You could use these intel attacks as non-random "events". Destroying ships, civil wars, etc. You could even do intel with negative values that would confer "blessings" upon specific races, planets, etc.

Geoschmo