How is it possible to raid without retreat ability?

[Taera]

perharps specialized component with high cost, tech level etc. etc would solve the problem, plus inserting, some cheaper to some of the racial traits, like Temporal races

[Ragnarok]

Rollo and Q are correct. But, B-U-T-T... If I'm not mistaken in SEII only the attacker had the option to retreat. Thus the enemy would HAVE to fight it out unless you (the attacker) retreat. Or is that what you guys mean as well? Because if the enemy could retreat on command as well then that'd be just stupid. Then the fights would basically never have an end, and no empire would win. So as long as the retreat option would be for the attacker then yes I would love to have it back.

I like what Taera said too, having a special componate that allows you to retreat or not. But then again that brings up the issue I just got done talking about. Because if it's a componate then that would mean the enemy being attacked if they had the componate all they'd have to do is use it and the battle is over. So they'd have to make it so only the attacker with the componate could retreat.

[ June 25, 2002, 14:33: Message edited by: Ragnarok ]

[Taera]

then there's the opposite of my idea - add a component high on the tech tree that would prevent the enemy from retreating.

[Suicide Junkie]

One more person backing Rollo.

The only "retreat" option I wold prefer to have is in the combat strategies.

Something along the lines of "If my shields (or hull) are below ## percent, then switch strategy to don't get hurt"

Your raiders could harrass a slower enemy, and then fall back to the edge of the combat map before they get severely damaged.

Retreating from the combat map should only happen after 30 turns. If your ships had the ability and the orders to retreat, they wouldn't have entered combat in the first place, since they would have stayed away from enemies on the strategic map.

[Marvin Kosh]

Originally posted by Taera:
then there's the opposite of my idea - add a component high on the tech tree that would prevent the enemy from retreating.

Like Warp Disipator from MOO2, except there's no warp to dissipate

[Atraikius]

I'm with Rollo on this too. Retreating in SEIII was a pain and ate up far too much time when chasing down a single colony ship or transport.

[Gandalph]

I will start by saying that I am neither for or against the idea of retreat.

In several of the Star Wars games I have played, impulse engines are used in tactical combat and if you wanted to retreat you had to go to the edge of the combat grid (IIRC with a movement penalty) and wait a turn or two while your warp engines warmed up. This made you vulnerable to attack and sometimes your warp capability would be knocked out so you would then be unable to leave the combat grid. As you were retreating, you still had the ability to fire, as long as your weapons were still intact. If you managed to make it out of combat, you would only end up 1 square away from the enemy on the system map and could still be attacked if the enemy still had movement. This style makes total sense to me and IMHO would add to the game play experience.

[Baron Munchausen]

When we asked for retreat in the past, the reason we were given for its removal was pretty much what has been discussed. Running down a colony ship was tedious. Strategic movement after combat made it possible to cheat in too many ways. etc. But getting pinned in an invisible corner is also a pain in the arse. I guess there's no single solution to the problem without some sort of complex 'scaling' of the game like Starfire uses. But that would be awfully complicated to program.

[ June 25, 2002, 16:56: Message edited by: Baron Munchausen ]

[Silent Sorrow]

Originally posted by Puke:
i.e., can slower ships retreat from faster ones? if a force is of mixed ships, will only the faster ships be able to run? what becomes of ships of the same speed? is a fighting withdrawl being made, or is the fleet being routed? if a fighting withdrawl, do they inflict damage as they flee? do they take any? do they take more if its a route? how is a route determined? where do they flee to? what if they dont have any movement left?

Why do you need to get into any of this? Why not just abstract it as in MOO2? If you choose to retreat you select "options/retreat" and your ships begin to move to the opposite edge or whatever--and sure, they can be taking damage as they flee. Then, on the next turn the two opposing fleets are still in the same space. The originally attacking fleet may choose to continue to flee on the galactic map (and be chased, or not chased, by the defending fleet).

while most, if not all and possibly more, of those questions can be answered, you do see how it could be problematic to program, and was perhaps left out of the initial release do the the extra time designing and testing that it would have caused.

Though I'm no programmer I don't see how what I described would be difficult to program since it would not actually involve any additional programming beyond adding an option to the options menu.

[geoschmo]

[quote]Originally posted by Silent Sorrow:

Why do you need to get into any of this? Why not just abstract it as in MOO2? If you choose to retreat you select "options/retreat"<snip>Though I'm no programmer I don't see how what I described would be difficult to program since it would not actually involve any additional programming beyond adding an option to the options menu.

I am not an auto mechanic, but I know it takes more than taping a button to the dash board to add cruise control to my car.

What you are missing Slient Sorrow is that the combat engine in SEIV was designed around strategic combat. IIRC the designer originally intend not to even have tactical combat. It was added in after considerable amount of requests from members of the beta team.

All of the factors Puke mentions are nessecary to determine for retreat to be an option in strategic combat, because you cannot simply give the ship a retreat order as you suggest. You must give them a strategy and a method of detemining what conditions to retreat under, and what conditions to persue a retreating ship under. For that matter, even under tactical combat you have to figure out these things to give the AI the ability to make these decisions.

I suppose that retreat could simply be added for tactical combat only, but it's simply not been a priority of the designer. Whether that is because of the complexity in programming all these factors, or just a lack of compelling need for it I don't know.

Geoschmo

[ June 25, 2002, 17:48: Message edited by: geoschmo ]