counter intelligence

[capnq]

I just redid the simulation and the defender had over 50,000 on defense in counter intel 1 and one food contamination at 15k got through.

Did the 50k on defense still have points being fed to it? Stored points are only effective if the project is still getting points (i.e. has more than 0 points per turn being spent on it).

[Edit] Since I know someone will question this, here's a quote from the Malfador website Q&A:

Defense intelligence projects will have their points depleted (the points you are paying in to complete them) as they defend against attacks. Once a defensive project expires, you will have to start it again to continue your protection. The more projects you have going, the better your protection will be. However, if you have a defensive intelligence project, and you are not spending any points towards it, it will not provide any protection.

[ July 28, 2002, 19:13: Message edited by: capnq ]

[Q]

Originally posted by augustinetorres:
I just redid the simulation and the defender had over 50,000 on defense in counter intel 1 and one food contamination at 15k got through, but then I tried over 50k in counter intel 2 and it stopped crew insurrection.

I redid your simulation and counter intel I defeated repeatedly the food contamination. Are you sure that no other intel projects were targeted against the same empire?
And the same is true if the counter intel project was at the end of the list and received no new intel points ("divide point equally" off).

[ July 28, 2002, 21:01: Message edited by: Q ]

[oleg]

To sum it up - Counter intelligence is counter intelligent.

[DirectorTsaarx]

Originally posted by capnq:

quote:

---

I just redid the simulation and the defender had over 50,000 on defense in counter intel 1 and one food contamination at 15k got through.

Did the 50k on defense still have points being fed to it? Stored points are only effective if the project is still getting points (i.e. has more than 0 points per turn being spent on it).

[Edit] Since I know someone will question this, here's a quote from the Malfador website Q&A:

Defense intelligence projects will have their points depleted (the points you are paying in to complete them) as they defend against attacks. Once a defensive project expires, you will have to start it again to continue your protection. The more projects you have going, the better your protection will be. However, if you have a defensive intelligence project, and you are not spending any points towards it, it will not provide any protection.

---

This must have been changed; in my current game, (ver 1.67), I have 4 CI-3 projects plus 4 PPP's going. I have "divide points equally" turned off, so the 4 PPP's complete each turn, with 30-40k points going into the first CI-3 project. The other 3 CI-3 projects are receiving NO points, they just have around 400k points stored in each one. Each turn, I'm stopping up to 8 intelligence projects, and the points are being deducted from the LAST CI project (one of the ones that is receiving NO, as in zero, points each turn). Now, since I'm spending points in at least one counter-intel project, maybe the game engine just sees the points being spent & doesn't check to see which CI project is receiving points...

[capnq]

Now, since I'm spending points in at least one counter-intel project, maybe the game engine just sees the points being spent & doesn't check to see which CI project is receiving points.

Aha! That interpretation of what's happening makes a lot of sense.

The Last time I saw an intel attack succeed despite stored defense points, the defender had no points whatsoever going into his Counterintel projects.

[DavidG]

The question I'd really like answered is this "Is intelligence actaully usefull?" I'm aware that it can be really nasty early on if the other guy has no defense but by about turn 100 it seems projects always fail. in a PBW game i've got about twice as many intel points than the second guy and all my projects fail. even against the guy with 0 intel productions (although he may have some in storage before his intel producing planets got glassed) I've been doing most of my intel against one player who has about a 3rd of the intel points I have for the Last 10 turns, They all fail.

[Rollo]

Intel can totally wreck your empire. had it happen to me in a PBW game. Was not fun.

[geoschmo]

DavidG, that's like asking if warships are useful cause they get destroyed by the other guys warships. If you don't have intel you can see how useful it is.

When trying to figure out why your intel atacks are failing, keep in mind a couple things. You said you are producing 3 times his intel? Do you really know how many intel points he has avaialable? Keep in mind if you are looking at the score screen that intel number is only the intel points he is producing. Any intel points he gets from allies in trade don't show up on that screen, but they do in the intell screen.

Secondly, do you know how many points he has stored up? You have been attacking for ten turns, but he could have been storing them for 40 turns before that.

Thirdly, you are producing 3 times as much as him, but are you using every point you are producing against him?

Finally, there is the rumored "defense multiplier". I don't know if it is correct or not, but some people claim that each point of CI accounts for 1.5 points of attack points. If this is true it affects calculations greatly. Has anyone confirmed this or not?

Geoschmo

[Q]

From the Settings.txt:

"Intelligence Defense Modifier Percent := 120"

This multiplies all defensive intel points by 1.2.

From the IntelProjects.txt:

Counter Intel Project 3:

"Effect Amount := 3"

This multiplies all defensive intel points of the counter intel project 3 three times!

[ July 30, 2002, 06:37: Message edited by: Q ]

[dumbluck]

Originally posted by Q:
From the IntelProjects.txt:

Counter Intel Project 3:

"Effect Amount := 3"

This multiplies all defensive intel points of the counter intel project 3 three times!

I thought that meant that the single project could block up to but no more than 3 projects!