When to attack

[Arkcon]

Originally posted by Taera:
Does someone have a link to full translation of Sun Tzu's book and Prince, too? I have one Sun Tzu's translation but its rather puny...

Well, for The Prince, I have this link to project Gutenberg

I used to have one with side-by-side english and italian. But I lost that link. If anyone finds one please pass it along.

A good, complete, Online Version of Art of War would be nice. I'll do fine without a Chinese Version.

[Arkcon]

Originally posted by Zoompet:

quote:

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Originally posted by Puke:
Sun Tzu and The Prince both have direct applications in SE4. I tend to favor the latter over the former.

Which one said "don't attack until you can sweep 100 points of mines."

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Neither, Machiavelli said your ships should already be at the enemys resupply depot before you broke your military alliance.

Sun-tzu said to activate the warp point opener -- into a non-colonized system in enemy territory behind the lines.

Look it up, it's in there, just translated poorly.



[ October 11, 2002, 14:17: Message edited by: Arkcon ]

[Zoompet]

Hmmm, this is getting a little far a field.

I guess what I was driving is which is better an early, middle or late game attack. Why, do people think they need a certain tech item, an economy of X size, a fleet of Y size, etc.

This is in particular reference to human players.

[Stone Mill]

This may not directly answer you question, but experienced players are on target when they apply real-world principles to SEIV.

From my military training, I find these invaluable:

PRINCIPLES OR WAR
Objective
Direct military operations toward a defined and attainable objective that contributes to strategic, operational, or tactical aims.
Offensive
Dictates that we act rather than react and dictate the time, place, purpose, scope, intensity, and pace of operations. The initiative must be seized, retained, and fully exploited.
Mass
Concentrate combat power at the decisive time and place.
Economy of Force
Create usable mass by using minimum combat power on secondary objectives. Make the fullest use of forces available
Maneuver
Place the enemy in a position of disadvantage through flexible application of combat power.
Unity of Command
Ensure unity of effort for every objective under one responsible commander.
Security
Protect friendly forces and their operations from enemy actions, which could provide the enemy with unexpected advantage.
Surprise
Strike the enemy at a time or place or in a manner for which he is unprepared.
Simplicity
Avoid unnecessary complexity in preparing, planning, and conducting military operations.

Now as for specific applications of these principles... that may be a few more Posts.

[Arkcon]

Originally posted by Zoompet:
Hmmm, this is getting a little far a field.

I guess what I was driving is which is better an early, middle or late game attack. Why, do people think they need a certain tech item, an economy of X size, a fleet of Y size, etc.

This is in particular reference to human players.

Well, OK,

Economy - try to figure out what trade you lose by attacking the enemy, and how that affects your maintenance. How many ships will you lose, what planets you're likely to capture, that sort of thing. You may colonize planets after you glass them, so you will spend resources building facilities and units, and population bonus will initially be small.

Tech- A very general rule of thumb is to not be more than 1 ship hull size behind an opponent. Yes Light cruisers can hold their own against battleships maybe. But frigates vs dreadnoughts? That might not work well. Which particular weapons? Too tough to call.

Fleet size - once you've hit a planet, if you intend to stay, see what ships you'd like to post at warp points and have blockade other planets. Expect a large planet to be able to bring up a couple of small ships or several fighters in a few turns. Be ready to handle them.

[dogscoff]

Unity of Command
Ensure unity of effort for every objective under one responsible commander.

This translates as: Don't switch the ministers on.

Something else that isn't being considered is whether you're playing to win or playing for fun. A lot of ppl will roleplay their empires, attacking to early or too late or not at all according to how aggressive their race is.

[ October 11, 2002, 16:51: Message edited by: dogscoff ]

[Stone Mill]

One critical aspect not clearly addressed in the PRINCIPLES OF WAR is the political aspect.

Before taking any decisive action, ensure you have the buy-in from as many allies as possible. Control the political spin. If not, your direction and concentration of forces may result in exposing yourself to a current "ally," who may find that an attack against you now looks appealing. Also, players may view you as a warmonger and potential threat and act to defend the weaker player.

It is Very important to control politics when playing with humans. In the blink of an eye, all of your advantages may become moot when all of the sudden, you are faced with a 2-front war that you are not prepared to manage.

[Zarix]

An early attack is good only if the enemy doesn't have mines. Frying a homeworld with a single planety napalm ship is very cost effective. Early attacks are waste of time if the enemy has already built some defences.

A middle game attack is more difficult. You have to have mine sweepers so if you fail more is lost than in an early attack.

The right time to attack is different in every game. If you have the most powerful ships then any time is good. If you think that you will lose a ship to ship combat, attack when the enemy ships are away from their planets. The best advice that I can give is to attack when enemy has pants down and run away really fast.

[TerranC]

*I have the English and Korean Versions of Art of war, if anybody is interested.*

you attack when you believe that:

Your enemy is primitive than you
Your enemy is only focusing one system at a time
You have a fully functional supply/support line

[Wardad]

Originally posted by Zoompet:
Hmmm, this is getting a little far a field.

I guess what I was driving is which is better an early, middle or late game attack. Why, do people think they need a certain tech item, an economy of X size, a fleet of Y size, etc.

This is in particular reference to human players.

Mines do stall an early game war. An early war will delay your expansion. But maybe you shouldn't advance too far in a PBW game. You don't want your race or colonies captured.
An early war can also give some advantages. Like a captured race that breathes a different atmosphere. Likewise taking another colonizing tech by ship capture or surrender will be a big advantage. If your happeness type is bloodthirsty: a phony, drawn out, but victorious war can make your population jubilant and bonus your production.