Middle Age Crisis ,CBM1.94+Assimilation mod 1.1 6/8 Players Remaining

[Hereward]

I am sorry you staled parone, and it must hurt when you asked for an extension, but as you can see your tactical situation did not suffer, I.e. I made no attacks etc. I know that it is still a harsh blow in terms of not having been able to do certain things, but you are still in a fairly good spot. I hope you do not leave the game, worthy opponent.

[krpeters]

It would be a good thing if the game administrator checked the board once a day... especially during holidays / weekends, when RL frequently gets in the way.

[Minor Kitty]

I try to, if you give me 24hrs warning I would get it since I check once a day, but if you get something like 1-12hrs I can't guarantee that I'd see it. You sent yours in 4hrs before the deadline at 9:30AM GMT+5, I was sleeping. If you gave me four hours warning that would mean that I have to check 6 even intervals a day to get that (not possible for anyone with day-time occupations or anyone who sleeps 8 hours). It's unfortunate that you staled but don't try to blame me when you gave me 4 hours worth of warning, and do you want a rollback?

[parone]

thanks kitty. but a roll back is likely to corrupt the game, as well as force everyone to redo their turn, which is no small inconvenience at this point.

this stale was really just awful timing. hereward and i have been fighting a tooth and nail conflict for the last 15-20 turns. i have more numbers/resources, and he has simply played smarter/better.

as such, it has resulted in an incredibly bloody, costly stalemate, but i have felt i was losing ground. i did, however, see one opportunity to turn the war around. i have spent the last 6 turns pouring everything into an attempt to take advantage of this opportunity-trying to move enough forces into position, borrowing assets from other players, making a desperate research push, and spending gems ruinously on conjurations/artifacts. the idea was to try and take our best shot before our window of opportunity closed.

anyway, i was attempting to do all this and launch the attack last turn, which was why i asked for the extension(normally, if i can't get a turn done, i just do a 5 minute blitz turn-which, by the way, is an awful idea). i tell you this not to *****, but so you know im not 'rage quiting' or just being a total wussy. staling last turn ruined about 6 turns of prep, and i honestly feel took away any real shot Ulm had at turning the war around.

im going to send in a turn file next turn, which will allow me to repay a few debts, then will go AI.

[Minor Kitty]

Look if its that big then I'll resend the turn, geez you've been a good player. Tough it out. I'm sure most people wouldn't mind, a redone turn makes little difference to me Marrigon or Krpeter, van gave his consent and the only people who might mind are are Ermor and Agartha; I'll wait for their word.

Also its not just you, its for the rest of the players as well.

[parone]

tivavals and hereward, it has been very fun, and you guys were great to play with. hope to see you in other games.

one other thing:i have never gone AI before-is there anything in particular i should do?

[parone]

cant really do that kitty. already sent van a PM explaining where the attack was going to fall as a kind of courtesy to him, so rolling back wont really help.

also, i find it a bit off putting that you would lecture me on doing what is right for the rest of the players. i have stuck out many, many bad situations to the last province in several games(since i stink as a player, i have gotten good at 'last stand').

as i stated in this thread, the timing was just horrendous.

an Admin's most important job is to prevent stales. most admins will go so far as to extend turn intervals even if a player doesn't ask for it, if it appears they are going to stale. the admin will then try to contact the player and see if it is a mistake or intentional, and then find a sub if needed. admining well is a lot of work.

that said, to deny multiple players extensions and force stales on them is not good for the 'rest of the players'. very few MP games will survive that type of admining. it cost this game two so far.

in any case, good luck. i did enjoy this game, there were some excellent players in it.

[Minor Kitty]

Like I said, I'm new. I made the reasonable assumption that the admin takes passive requests and that the onus is on the player. Still learning.

And I'd figure the lecturing would be uncomforting but I had to tell you what I saw ,it's still your choice to go AI. And all you have to do is go in options and set it to computer controlled.

[Man with No Name]

Originally Posted by parone

an Admin's most important job is to prevent stales.

The admin's most important job in ensuring the smooth running of the game. Which involves a number of things, but covers the likes of having an approprotate schedule in place for the stage the game is at (ie. one that increases as the game progresses and becomes more complex). That no players are struggling to submit their turns, and to be given some assistance and options if they are having trouble (eg. extending hosting for a period of time, which can help players that are busier than normal, such as having exams or deadlines). It also means trying to limit the frequency of delays, as for example it is usually a lot better all round to permanently extend a schedule by 24 hours, rather than keep adding 24 hour delays every other turn. The smoothness of regular hostings is usually to be prefered over how quickly turns rollover.

An admin should also try to make sure that the nation of any players who have excessive staling records, or have gone awol, are addressed and dealt with quickly in whatever manner deemed best by the admin. It is very common in these situations for the admin to ask the players what they think is the best course of action. (ie. find a sub, turn AI, leave to stale etc).

Sometimes there will be disputes between players, and it is the admins job to deal with those as fairly and impartially as he can. Luckily such disputes don't happen that often, but when they do, and when the players can't settle it amongst themselves, then it is the admin who has to step in and sort it out, and try to minimise the disruption to the overall game.

If the admin is also the person organising the game, then they should try to spend some time and effort before the game starts in making sure the game settings are clear in the first post, and that maps and mods are linked where applicable. They should also aim to minimise the chances of any players getting unfairly favoured or punished due to controllable factors. For example picking maps that either heavily advantage or disadvantge a lone water nation, or mistakenly assuming that random starts are in any way balanced. That is to say the game has NO built-in scripts to ensure that random starts are appropriate (ie. That capitals will have 4 or more neighbouring provinces). And there is effectively no concern for where capitals are located, or if they are evenly placed, apart from making sure they are not located next to each other. (ie. captals are placed anywehere the map commands allow. If there are no commands in the .map file relating to start locations, then players will literally start anywhere on the map)

There is a wide selection of maps available in the community, many of which have been modified to have random fixed starts. (eg. A map has been modified to have just 10 start locations, and any nation could start in any one of the fixed start locations. ie. Random starts, but in fixed locations). Admins, especially new ones, shouldn't be afraid of asking the community for help with selecting maps (and not just asking the players in the game), or even asking for help in modifiying maps. There are several helpful members in the Dominions community, often with years of experience in playing and modding. They also lurk a lot, so you can often just make a general request on a game thread (something like "Can any senior member suggest a good map for a 8 player game for new players"), and chances are someone will notice it. Although it doesn't hurt to go looking for help either, such as the IRC channel. Or even posting for help in the Maps scetion of the forum. (although please be aware that a lot of senior members of the community no longer post on the Shrapnel forum, or even visit it, so you might need to go elsewhere to get their help)

Originally Posted by parone

most admins will go so far as to extend turn intervals even if a player doesn't ask for it, if it appears they are going to stale.

That is nowhere near true. Some very selective admins do take steps to actively prevent players staling, usually by delaying hosting (without being asked by a player) to prevent an imminent stale by one or more players.

But for the vast majority of admins and MP games (we are talking 95%+), it is entirely the players own responsibility to submit turns before the deadline, and to ask for delays in a timely manner (the unofficial meaning of "timely manner" is usually a minimum of 24 hours in advance).

If you have experience of playing in games with admins who prevented stales with unrequested delays, then you need to realise that this is far from the normal procedure for most admins. Whatever lengths some admins might go to to prevent players staling is the exception to the norm, and you certainly shouldn't expect (or even demand it seems) for every admin to do take such preventative measures. As that is just being highly unrealistic, and very unreasonable. Admins have real lives, and real life time constraints, just like everyone else does.

Originally Posted by parone

the admin will then try to contact the player and see if it is a mistake or intentional, and then find a sub if needed.

Yse, most admins will (and should) do this.

Originally Posted by parone

admining well is a lot of work..

It is, and it can take a lot of experience and practice to get to that level. But admins shouldn't be chastised for failing to excel, and certainly not if they are doing an acceptable job. And there is an added unfairness if it's their first attempt at the job. (please note I have no infomation or stance on previous events in this game. Just that in this particular case, I see nothing the admin did wrong. Apart from not being at the computer every minute of every day to check for delay requests.)

[Hereward]

So are we finding a sub?