Mongoose - Starting (at last!)

[Loren]

fabio80mi said:
The nation of Abysia will make the so called 'alliance' pay dearly for this impudence.

Reports indicated that Mourn Son of the Sun , false god of Marignon has been killed by one of our heroes.

Similar fate happened to Slither , false god of Arco who also was killed by our superior forces.

Let all the world know that Abysia shall from now on be called god-slayer

Abyssia has no heroes. You have demons!

Unfortunately, this land has probably fallen to your infernal forces.

[Loren]

R'yleh--you have made a big mistake siding with Abyssia. Pretty soon your daughters are going to be being sacrificed to infernal powers.

And don't think of playing the innocent--we all know where the mind hunts are coming from.

[Sensori]

Hee hee hee. You have some comic talent, human. Three nations attacking one without saying a word is hardly fair, and you still failed to conquer their lands. How is your "alliance of good" any better than the infernal forces which the Abysians control, when you would invade their lands in such a manner? We thought cowardice was an "evil" trait. Indeed, we had no idea that someone rewrote the human dictionary and made cowardice a part of being "good"!

So far, all we have done is aid them in defense against your "forces of good" on their lands. We have not trespassed on yours. If you choose to invade our lands, surely you must realize that this will change most radically.

As for your wonderment about our "siding" with the Abysians. None in your "alliance of good" attempted to get us join it in the first place. They came in our aid against the Ulmish horde, and they have been a good friend of the Illithid race for quite some time. If you thought we would simply stand by and do absolutely nothing while the world is being changed by a group of nations bent on the destruction of one of our closest neighbors... You were sorely mistaken.

[Loren]

Sensori said:
Hee hee hee. You have some comic talent, human. Three nations attacking one without saying a word is hardly fair, and you still failed to conquer their lands. How is your "alliance of good" any better than the infernal forces which the Abysians control, when you would invade their lands in such a manner? We thought cowardice was an "evil" trait. Indeed, we had no idea that someone rewrote the human dictionary and made cowardice a part of being "good"!

I do admit we goofed up on the declaration of war--apparently we were all expecting someone else to post it.

So far, all we have done is aid them in defense against your "forces of good" on their lands. We have not trespassed on yours. If you choose to invade our lands, surely you must realize that this will change most radically.

Violating multiple NAP's to do so.

As for your wonderment about our "siding" with the Abysians. None in your "alliance of good" attempted to get us join it in the first place.

You were obviously in their camp already.

They came in our aid against the Ulmish horde, and they have been a good friend of the Illithid race for quite some time. If you thought we would simply stand by and do absolutely nothing while the world is being changed by a group of nations bent on the destruction of one of our closest neighbors... You were sorely mistaken.

You should have rejoiced. You realize they are a blood nation with good scales? While I don't know your scales I do know you went with an awake Wrym--your scales aren't going to match theirs. You're not going to stand a chance when they come for you.

[Sensori]

Loren said:

I do admit we goofed up on the declaration of war--apparently we were all expecting someone else to post it.

Just like your little alliance "goofed up" the declaration of war against Ermor, huh. Interesting, isn't it? Attack first, declare war after you have fought for several months, then say it was a mistake. Ingenius.

Even if it was a real mistake (I can believe you made a honest mistake, but the others? No), it doesn't explain the same people doing the same mistake TWICE.

Violating multiple NAP's to do so.

Those Mind Hunts are there to aid an ally on their territory. I never agreed to have the non-aggression pacts cover the armies you might have on the lands of my allies as well unannounced. Nor have I directly attacked anyone on purpose. I have used remote attacks, and only on Abysia's territory. Of course, excluding Ulm who was asking for a Mind Hunt fest on his lands after he attacked fully aware that I would let loose the dogs of... Mind Hunt on him.

And considering the cowardly nature of three nations attacking one, especially without any declaration of war, it is obvious that there are certain mitigating factors in the issue of me throwing Mind Hunts on your armies.

You were obviously in their camp already.

... Right. R'lyeh obviously was in Abysia's camp over twenty turns ago? Obviously obvious!

The obvious thing was that you didn't even like me having 10 troops in a damn fortress close to you. You never asked if I'd join, but you did tell me to go away with my massively huge 10 Ichtyid army, calling it a gigantic build up.

You should have rejoiced. You realize they are a blood nation with good scales?

Yes, I do realize that Abysia is a blood nation with relatively good scales. And this should be an issue for me, because...?

While I don't know your scales I do know you went with an awake Wrym--your scales aren't going to match theirs.

Yes. Because an awake Wyrm is a good choice if you happen to be underwater since it works both in the sea and on the land. But scales have a big effect on the world around us, because...?

You're not going to stand a chance when they come for you.

Because...? You obviously have some information I don't, because I kind of think that I would have a chance if he came for me.

[WonderLlama]

Wait, who made that rule about declarations of war? When I attacked Ermor, there was no mistake about it. Is there a Dominions-wide rule that you have to tell somebody before you attack them? I absolutely tell somebody if I have any kind of agreement with them. If I agree to peace, I will tell you ahead of time, before I break it. That is if I break it, which to date I have never done. I never agreed to anything with Ermor, nor with Abyssia.

I'm serious, this is my first game. Is it agreed univerally withing the dominions community that you must declare war a turn before invading?

Now you on the other hand, broke your 4-turn NAP. When I make an NAP, I make sure my allies agree to the NAP as well. I had no idea that you were allied with Abyssia, and it was your responsibility to tell me what I could or could not do regarding Abyssia as part of the NAP.

As for the deciding who would win, Abyssia vs. R'yleh if you take everyone else out, that's not really my business. But if I were betting, you'd better believe I'd take Abyssia.

[Sensori]

No, there's not an agreement on anything. I'm just playing my nation in a roleplay sense (devious Illithid and all that) and such and such. If you want explanations, Abysia also broke against a non-aggression pact when he went for Ulm when Ulm attacked me, which made it easier for me to go against NAPs when he came under attack. And I was seriously afraid that you guys would actually destroy Abysia in a quick, swift stroke, just like you did with Ermor. I was taken by total surprise when the armies started falling like flies.

Turned out I had completely overestimated your combined armies.

As for the NAPs, I made sure that I didn't invade your lands, kill your men and children and rape your women, because they were in effect. I have only helped Abysia to repel you from his lands so far. This, as far as I know, is fairly common in Dominions games - helping allies (and others in dire need of help) indirectly when they are at war and you are not. Some prefer a more direct approach, attacking people left and right, some like to attack from the shadows and use attacks that may or may not bite you in the *** if you over do it. Some even let others pay them to use remote attacks against another nation.

And I'm ready to come up and say that I overdid it, but hey, it did the job it was supposed to do.

Abysia was OK with the NAP. He however wasn't OK with the fact that you attacked him unannounced (a fairly common thing that happens in Dominions games when no deals are up. Never liked it however). I was under the impression that he had NAPs with you all (except Caelum). When I started wondering about the Marignonian and Arcoscephalean armies on mine and his borders, it turned out his NAPs had expired. He of course expected me to help him right then and there, and having learned from the experience with Ermor ("he might not be around in four to five turns"), that's what I opted to do.

And don't take things said too seriously - you're playing just fine. And I don't think this war is anywhere near its end. There are no "universally agreed" things in the Dominions community that I have heard of. Breaking NAPs is a bad thing, however. Seriously enough about this particular situation, it had all the signs of a quick gang up (*three* nations attacking one at once?) that I had no idea what else I should do, especially with my predisposition to hate unannounced attacks - it seemed like a do or die situation.

Which it wasn't. I overestimate and worry about things too much for my own good. And now I keep explaining and explaining, which is another less than admirable trait I happen to have. ;p

--

EDIT talk: I started thinking. There's more that needs to be said.

In case someone is wondering, the post I made to Loren was in character. That means basically that, when I called people cowardly, out in the open, for something people do often enough (no matter how much I don't like it), it's actually an attempt to make the fact that hell, I just got caught breaking against the spirit of NAP all over the place, look a bit better. It's just In Character talk, nothing more, nothing less. If my BS offends someone, I'm sorry. And I'm sorry for confusing folks with that randomness and throwing around insults which may have been taken personally when none such was meant.

Of course R'lyeh (and its leaders) will think that they will win. To be frank, I have no idea who will win. I personally have no desire to win. For various reasons. But by helping Abysia and making the game possibly more fun for its player, as I realized, I made the game less fun for three other people by using mind hunt... That isn't such a good method of learning now is it. I'm sorry for doing it, but I've managed to drive myself into a damn corner now.

But Caelum has to have some tricks up his sleeve, right? Right? Those Caelian Seraphs weren't it, were they?

And Eldanesh. Whatever I say in our "heated" exchange about peace/no peace, it has always been in character BS. Sure, I may find the stuff you're doing stupid, but seriously... It's not that bad when you consider the situation (I was about as large as you for starters, and then I had five land provinces right next to you). Please keep that in mind when you read them - I'm talking there as the leadership of R'lyeh to the leadership of Ulm, not as me to you. And if I've managed to offend you, I'm really sorry.

I'll never understand why you demanded me to give you the provinces for nothing, though. Was it a miscommunication or what?

Maybe I should give up R'lyeh to someone else, I'm starting to feel I'm doing more damage to the game than good. :|

[WonderLlama]

Don't worry about offending me. You certainly didn't say anything near as bad as Ermor did. I thought you were saying that what I did was legitimately not ok. Role playing makes learning the game and learning the rules of diplomacy a lot more confusing.

Mind hunt I understand and am ok with. I understand the theory of how to counter it. I just wasn't expecting to have to deal with it at the moment. And I sort of thought the newbie game rules meant treaties were more likely to be followed. But I understand what to expect from it, so I'm not panicking over it.

Blood magic is a different story; I have no idea what to expect from it. All I know is that people say it gets crazy powerful late game, and you have to deal with it early. And that it just dealt with two allies with ease.

Now back in the game, I am of course upset about the NAP. I'm also interested that my allies had an NAP that I didn't know about. I definitely still have tricks up my sleeves. Those seraphs were just a very expensive experiment. The trouble is, I've just seen two allies wounded extremely badly, and I haven't even seen the force that did it yet. If I can't even protect my allies, then what good am I? I am having an existential crisis.

[fabio80mi]

Greetings!
This is the player behind abysia speaking so no roleplaying involved.

What you did can be called cowardice especially if coming from the self-declared 'forces of good' but it was COMPLETELY a legit tactic both as a roleplay thing (abysia is, in fact , an evil nation:P) and as a diplomatic thing (you formed an alliance and attacked a nation your percieved as a threat).
So absolutely no whinings or ill-feeling on my part it's just the way the game plays :-)

However you couldn't expect me to go down without a fight and making you pay DEARLY for your invasion right??

Snd so now you have a fight! You may very well likely win (even with r'ylen defensive support) but who knows at least we'll have some fun :-)

As to explain r'yleh help well i actually expected it because of a precedent.
I was in very very good term with Ulm and r'yleh and tried hard for many turns to make them like each other and bring them together in a war front.
In the end, for a mistake i think, ulm invaded r'yleh so i could standby and do nothing (possibly losing 2 friends and being completely surrended by a very large and powerful nation) or pick one... i picked the one in my view was the invaded one and stook with him in the war.

Unfortunatly your 'alliance' had good intelligence and decided to attack me when most of my forces were away so now i can't committ with Ulm! i also tried to convince Ulm (and r'yleh both) to make peace well it didn't work :-)

Now i'm in a very interesting fight with 2 land nation attacking me in the west, your seraph in my backyard and ulm on the north.. interesting isn't it?

P.S.
Edit for blood magic-> it is of course a very good school of magic BUT though being powerful (ask marignon and arco:P) it's not invincible.
This is my first game playing medium abysia (even on sp..) and first mp game so i'm a very far away to master it.. guess i'll learn along the way as we are all doing !

[Sensori]

For what it's worth, the Starspawn of R'lyeh now notify the three allied Western nations (Arcoscephale, Caelum, Marignon) of the beginning of the formal cancellation of the various non-aggression pacts.

While it may be a pointless gesture, consider us at total war in four months (five as the case may be with one).