OT: Jibjab, Politics, the Big Bang and more!

[NTJedi]

Originally posted by Boron:
germany is almost bankrupt because or huge social programs like health care , pensions and unemployment benefit become unpayable .

so conclusion NTJedi : you are totally right and wait 10 years and many nations like germany will have abolished national healthcare and have a system similiar to the USsystem .

That's so true... and there's no reason to send the USA down a dark path which includes higher taxes.

[Arryn]

Originally posted by vigabrand:
There is absolutely zero evidence that Bush was planning on going to war before 9/11. Thats pure speculation.

Not so, but I don't recall offhand the name of the Bush admin. insider who not long ago leaked this. May have been Clarke (not the General, the other one).

It seems to me that your biggest gripe about Bush, is that he is liar and a schemer, though there is no factual evidence to any of it. Do you really not like the guy because he "seems" to be a liar?

I have several books, written by investigative reporters, that document (and I do mean document, in verifiable detail) a very long history of his lying and scheming, from before he was even Governor of my state. I've disliked the man for many, many years. His whole family, for that matter.

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by Norfleet:
Oh, I'm aware of it. In fact, it's worse than thievery.

Right. I think it's now quite clear that you have no interest in developing a functioning society, so there's little point in continuing this.

It doesn't change the fact that the system sucks, because obviously, anyone who cares to afford to get out does so

Which doesn't change the fact that the U.S. system sucks because people who need treatment can't afford to get it.

It's the principle of the matter! Give an inch, and they take a mile. Have you no sense of principle anymore? What is wrong with you people?!?

Your statement here is a textbook slippery slope fallacy.

You still can't demonstrate what is *WRONG* with the lazy people argument.

What's wrong with it is that whether the person is lazy or not is irrelevant. They still deserve a standard of living that is better than the poverty line. They deserve this because they are _human_.

The only difference between something that can go wrong, and something that can't possibly go wrong, is that when the latter goes wrong, it usually proves impossible to fix.

This statement has nothing to do with your paranoid fear of human beings that you don't have personal dealings with.

You assume that we need every Last person we can get, and that the world is not overpopulated. We don't, and it is.

The U.S. is hardly overpopulated. Like I said, you are willing to throw up any amount of red herrings and smokescreens to disguise the fact that you don't care about those people simply because you don't personally know them.

At least life would be interesting.

I think the only thing to say here is: May you live in interesting times.

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by NTJedi:
That's so true... and there's no reason to send the USA down a dark path which includes higher taxes.

It's nice to see that you _completely_ ignored all the evidence I presented to you in my earlier Posts. Of course, that's really par for the course with yourself, since you've always argued in this way on the forum.

[NTJedi]

Originally posted by Norfleet:
When someone chooses to have an abortion, they're removing an unwanted parasitic organism from their own bodies. I guarantee you that if YOU had been aborted as a child, you'd have had no objections about it. Being nonsentient at the time, and being subsequently nonexistent, makes for a very convenient package.

I believe it's important to give a voice to the child which will exist. Once conception has occurred only God truly knows when the entity/organism has a soul... lets play it safe and stay away from abortion.

[Norfleet]

Originally posted by Graeme Dice:
Your statement here is a textbook slippery slope fallacy.

You say that, but it's still true: Every time some politician tacks some more crap onto your tax bill, they're hoping you won't notice, or will shrug it off as minor. It never ends. The fact of the matter remains is that everytime something like this is added, yet more of your money is siphoned away, not to support a public service that everyone can benefit from, like roads, the army, or libraries, but to support some worthless slacker who can't be bothered to support his own bloated carcass: Somebody who everyone would be better off without.

What's wrong with it is that whether the person is lazy or not is irrelevant. They still deserve a standard of living that is better than the poverty line. They deserve this because they are _human_.

What are you, a Communist? Nobody *DESERVES* anything. If you want something, you have to *EARN* it. There's no free lunch, pal. If you can't afford something, you get a nice lesson in "learning to do without". I mean, hell, look at me: I spent many years living out of a used Army-surplus jeep. Why? Because houses cost money! I didn't HAVE that money yet, so guess what? I LEARNED TO DO WITHOUT. When I couldn't afford an extended hospital bill and stay to treat an injury incurred in the field, I patched it with duct tape! It's all about LEARNING TO DO WITHOUT. If you can't afford it, that's what you gotta do, not go piss and moan a handout from total strangers. Can't you at least panhandle honestly, rather than try to get the government to do your panhandling for you? Sheesh.

Today, I have lots of money. I can now afford things. So when I feel like I really want them, I do so. I have no pity for somebody who expects a free handout because they CAN'T AFFORD IT. Cry me a river. Boo frickety hoo.

You ALSO forget that trying to give everyone a standard of living ABOVE the poverty line simply redefines the poverty line! No matter what you do, there will always be people who are sufficiently "below average" to constitute poverty.

The U.S. is hardly overpopulated.

I disagree with this assertion. You merely need to try to go through a supermarket checkout to see that there are clearly too many people.

Like I said, you are willing to throw up any amount of red herrings and smokescreens to disguise the fact that you don't care about those people simply because you don't personally know them.

Disguise? Where have I tried to disguise this?

I think the only thing to say here is: May you live in interesting times.

Amen. Boredom is a horrible way to die.

[ July 28, 2004, 21:11: Message edited by: Norfleet ]

[Norfleet]

Originally posted by NTJedi:
I believe it's important to give a voice to the child which will exist. Once conception has occurred only God truly knows when the entity/organism has a soul... lets play it safe and stay away from abortion.

I have no evidence that supports the existence of God, or souls. Assuming that God exists, there's no reason why I should place any real value in what he says, given that he has a known record of hypocrisy. Certainly he makes no effort to actually enforce any of this, and even if he did, he'd be nothing more than a bully. As for souls, well, as you said yourself, only God truly knows when an entity or organism has a soul, right? Let's stay away from eating animals, too, right? Yeah. I love animals. They taste great.

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by Norfleet:
What are you, a Communist? Nobody *DESERVES* anything.

I was wondering when the standard American insults were going to start showing up.

I suggest you read your own constitution. People have a right to _life_ in the U.S.

I've snipped the rest of your pointless tirade.

I disagree with this assertion. You merely need to try to go through a supermarket checkout to see that there are clearly too many people.

Another meaningless anecdote demonstrating the uselessness of your arguments.

Disguise? Where have I tried to disguise this?

You freely admit that you don't care about people that you don't know personally? Good. It's nice to see that you're demonstrating just why you're a social parasite.

[Arryn]

Originally posted by Graeme Dice:
What's wrong with it is that whether the person is lazy or not is irrelevant. They still deserve a standard of living that is better than the poverty line. They deserve this because they are _human_.

Why? It removes the important concept of personal responsibility.

What humans deserve is "the chance for a better life", not the better life itself. The latter should be earned. You and I have the right to have the opportunity to become wealthy. We do not have a right to be wealthy. Note the distinction. In the former, you can work towards your goals. In the latter, you are given what you seek without having earned it. I have the right to try to become a U.S. senator. I do not have a right to be one. Society owes me the opportunity to succeed, not the success itself. Society owes me the right to be able to find good medical care, not the care itself.

If humans have an innate right to be taken care of by our society, then why must we pay for rent, food, or anything else we might want in our ordained right to happiness? Please recall the United States Declaration of Independence says "pursuit of happiness", not "happiness".

[Norfleet]

Originally posted by Graeme Dice:
I suggest you read your own constitution. People have a right to _life_ in the U.S.

That just means it's illegal to kill them. Not that I'm required to help them if they can't be bothered to help themselves and obviously seem to enjoy being poor, as they can't be bothered to make the effort to end this. America is supposed to be the land of opportunity: If you can't be bothered to do something about it, you deserve to be poor. Somebody's gotta be.

You freely admit that you don't care about people that you don't know personally? Good. It's nice to see that you're demonstrating just why you're a social parasite.

Parasite? I happen to be a taxpaying citizen who owes no money. I'm quite self-supporting, thank-you-very-much.