what about the future?

[Zeldor]

I think that Shrapnel insulted Dom3 community so many times, that only few people would consider buying anything else from them [unless it's IW stuff, we'd only curse at them for choosing Shrapnel again].

Tim Brooks really tries hard to get the image of arrogant distributor that thinks his customers are enemies. But why would anyone here want to harm Shrapnel? All we want is to enjoy the game. But Shrapnel insists on making this experience less pleasant.

People are giving advices and criticism cause they love good complicated games. And all ideas are towards getting more of them at higher quality - and also bigger community, people we could enjoy the game with.

But Shrapnel knows better - that people are maybe on some mad quest to take down Shrapnel? Maybe you should barricade your buildings, just in case? I have better idea - learn from mistakes. See Elemental? They totally ignored any feedback from beta and lost all trust. They listen only to fanboys, fanboys that got their agreement to mock and insult all that dare to criticise. How is situation here different? You have unknown mods, that just ban community legends, you have *deleted* who should have been banned many times already, you have one of the worst ad campaign [those drug-addicted girls], you screwed us with forum transfer, you insult us with digital download price [it costs you more than burning cd and printing manual? really?] and now you try to insult us here, in that thread.

So how about you use some money you earned on us, hire a consultant to make an audit, see why your costs are so high and also send someone [like yourself] to get some proper course on marketing and advertisement? Some training in customer relations for all your staff wouldn't hurt either.

[Valerius]

Originally Posted by Eximius Sus

Grognards are simple. If you have the best game they will pay for it. Dom3 is pretty much the best game going.

This is why, for me, Dominions is the best value I've gotten in gaming - my cost per hour played is pennies. Beats MOO, Doom, Unreal Tournament, and Halo (pistol sniping ftw!). Of course if you buy the game and don't like it, it hurts more than if you picked up a game at the bargain bin. This is why, unless they are price insensitive, I would always recommend prospective players try out the demo first. You can play enough turns to decide if the game is to your liking (and you avoid late game micro ).

[Foodstamp]

Originally Posted by Valerius

This is why, for me, Dominions is the best value I've gotten in gaming - my cost per hour played is pennies. Beats MOO, Doom, Unreal Tournament, and Halo (pistol sniping ftw!). Of course if you buy the game and don't like it, it hurts more than if you picked up a game at the bargain bin. This is why, unless they are price insensitive, I would always recommend prospective players try out the demo first. You can play enough turns to decide if the game is to your liking (and you avoid late game micro ).

What this guy said. I did a break down of my average time playing and modding Dominions and it is one of the best values for my dollar I have ever gotten out of a PC game second only to Master of Magic.

[Soyweiser]

Originally Posted by 13lackGu4rd

radical innovations have nothing to do with products, at least not at their first phase.

Nevermind that semiconductors where around 50 years before transistors where developed. But whatever, just ignore the definitions about radical innovations made by the textbooks, and the definitions made by the universities. I'm sorry but you are wrong. Personal computers are a radical innovation. Ivory tower research is not the only source of radical innovations. Both private and public sector R&D can provide both types of innovations.

You include the lack of products in your definition. Which is simply not true. But don't believe me, just get a innovation textbook. (Might I suggest one, Managing Innovation, by Joe Tidd et all).

--
The first part of this thread is also pretty interesting btw. Strange that a lot of development for the new IW project is done in secret. (Creating blogs, and regular updates is a great way to start buzz and pr).

Edit2:
A dom3 roguelike? Interesting, how is that supposed to work?

[Annette]

We've insulted you, Zeldor? In this thread alone you have said this about us:

[If Shrapnel says they cannot lower it much [but Amazon can still sell it for $50 and free shipping] it just means their business model sucks and their costs are way too high.

Dominions is an old niche game with ugly graphics. You can try convincing someone to it, but price tag is just stupid. Especially for digital copy.

50 bucks is because of Shrapnel, they are morons and know **** about doing business.

Seriously, how can coming to our forums appeal to you when you hate us this much?

[HoneyBadger]

I don't know if this is meant to be a serious statement, but I've never felt to be "insulted" by Shrapnel Games, and that's coming from someone who's a pretty touchy guy, without a lot of shiny happy feelings towards game companies, in general. Particularly game distributors. I've purchased two games from them, paid a price I considered to be fair (and still do), and haven't had any serious complaints.

$50 isn't bad at all for Dom3. That's roughly an average 8 hour day's work. Maybe 2 days, back when I was bagging groceries as a teenager, and a third of one now.

Regardless of whatever profit Shrapnel and Illwinter may make per unit, this isn't a major release by a major distributor. You can't find it at Walmart. So, I consider it to be similar to purchasing any other specialty item. Yeah, it's expensive, and yeah it would probably be possible to price individual units lower and still clear a profit on individual units, but it's unrealistic to expect them to charge less than they have to.

[Fantomen]

Originally Posted by Annette

Seriously, how can coming to our forums appeal to you when you hate us this much?

I may not agree with Zeldor all the way, but this question is easy to answer.

The Dom3 community and Shrapnel are separate things. That's it.

Edit: Whenever you discuss things in the dom3 fora, you also have to remember that the community has been split and severely hurt by the debacle around sombres ban. There has been a very noticable decrease of new games started, and having to monitor and post game threads in two forums is a hassle. Newbies get confused by this and get less help than they used to. Key contributors got bitter and more or less stopped posting. The community is all in all in pretty bad shape. You simply have to accept that there is a lot of bitterness against Shrapnel over this, and I think this damage is more or less permanent. That is why threads like this one are so hostile, large portions of the community simply wish you'd stay away. Sad but true.

[Tim Brooks]

Originally Posted by Fantomen

You simply have to accept that there is a lot of bitterness against Shrapnel over this, and I think this damage is more or less permanent. That is why threads like this one are so hostile, large portions of the community simply wish you'd stay away. Sad but true.

Yes. We are aware of this and we try to be understanding. But this is our home. We don't mind criticism or even discussion of our business practices. What we can't tolerate are the attacks against us.

You know, I thought the whole sombre side was starting their own forums. Whatever happened to that? Just go over there and attack us. Or choose one of the other popular Dominions 3 forums - there are several.

Is it unreasonable to ask for people to act with a little restraint in our own home?

[Foodstamp]

This thread is not delivering. For the first time, I am really feeling the absence of the "Sombre Crew".

[lch]

Originally Posted by Foodstamp

What this guy said. I did a break down of my average time playing and modding Dominions and it is one of the best values for my dollar I have ever gotten out of a PC game second only to Master of Magic.

Same here. Like many others, I only noticed Dominions because I was looking for a replacement for MoM. I'm still looking for something that's closer to MoM, but up to date. Elemental promised that it would be that game, but from what I read here my doubts about these assertions have been justified.

Originally Posted by Foodstamp

This thread is not delivering. For the first time, I am really feeling the absence of the "Sombre Crew".

That's because he is banned, as well as a couple of other guys, though I don't know who you'd count as "Sombre Crew", I only see individuals. What's missing for you?