what about the future?

[Fantomen]

Originally Posted by Tim Brooks

Yes. We are aware of this and we try to be understanding. But this is our home. We don't mind criticism or even discussion of our business practices. What we can't tolerate are the attacks against us.

You know, I thought the whole sombre side was starting their own forums. Whatever happened to that? Just go over there and attack us. Or choose one of the other popular Dominions 3 forums - there are several.

Is it unreasonable to ask for people to act with a little restraint in our own home?

No, it's not unreasonable perhaps. But the "sombre side" isn't so homogen either. There is another forum started, yes. But that forum is fairly small, and not (yet at least) big enough to support it's own gaming community. Only a few hardcore veterans have switched over completely.

So it's dependent on this forum to keep connected with the multiplayer crowd. Most people who are there are also here, and most people who got angry over the sombre ban but didn't get banned themselves are still only here.

The function of the dom3mods fora is for THIS community to stay in touch with members it cannot afford to lose. It's an attempt to patch up the wound, how long will that work? Plus being a safe haven for pirates, nicely welded into the community here (nice side effect, huh?)

It's too late to try and create a community for this game from scratch, so we have to hold on to what there is. That is what the bitterness is about, not about the specific things you or Anette posted anywhere (you're kinda nice usually), it's about the DAMAGE. It's about not having what we had before, it's about wishing that thing never happened.

For good or bad, new players who come here sooner or later hear the story, on IRC or the dom3mods fora, and make their conclusions. It's not two "sides", it's a general change of attitude in large parts of the community.

Your home? I guess we're your dysfunctional traumatized kids then.

[Soyweiser]

Originally Posted by lch

That's because he is banned, as well as a couple of other guys, though I don't know who you'd count as "Sombre Crew", I only see individuals. What's missing for you?

I think he is missing the lulz.

[Fantomen]

Originally Posted by Tim Brooks

Or choose one of the other popular Dominions 3 forums - there are several.

Oh yes, I wanted to reply to this as well. It's not the first time I hear this kind of reference to "other" dominions forums, usually by Gandalf Parker. But there is never any links or specific names of those forums.

I usually dismiss most that he says as either exaggerations based of miniscule evidence or rhetorics to boost his own perceived importance, but since you are now saying this as well I have to seriously ask what the hell am I missing?

Either it's just not true, or I'm having a really hard time finding them. I'd like to, having alternate places to arrange games would be really nice.

But all I can find are general gaming forums with a few dom3 threads in them. Mixed up with all kinds of other threads. Usually the activity is low. Examples of this are quarter to three, rpg codex etc. Quite many. But no real dom3 forums, no.

The only proper dedicated, structured(with subsections for multiplayer and mods etc) and active dom3 community apart from this that I could find was a Japanese one and the dom3mods fora (which is really a part of this one) , unfortunately I don't know much Japanese which would interfere with the experience a bit so I count that out.

So WHERE are all these "several" alternative dominions 3 communities?

I'd love a proper response with links and names in it if that's ok.

[Gandalf Parker]

Actually Im sorry Ive ever mentioned such forums. And conversations like this make me ever less likely to tell you where they are. I know others feel that way also since I can see multiple people on this forum and on Sombres who know of them. If you dont believe me, then great. Thanks for that. Lets keep it that way.

As for the discussions about Shrapnel, some points surprise me.

A) Comments about never buying another game from Shrapnel surprises me. I always got the impression that some of the loudest people along those lines had no clue that Shrapnel even sold other games. I have half a dozen or so, and demos of 4 others (altho truthfully I only regularly play 2 of the games)

B) Comments about Shrapnel being clueless seem like they can generally be disregarded if those people dont seem to know why Shrapnel exists. Where it came from, what its mission is, and how well it has done that.

C) Comments about do or die seem too black and white fanatical for real discussion. There is always grey zone. In a purely make money and get big scenario some things would be true that wouldnt seem to apply here. Some publishers (and developers) gladly fall more into the make less but do it the way you want category. I think that both Shrapnel and Illwinter fall in there and Im surprised if thats still unclear to people who have been around for a long time.


And tho Im not paid to moderate here I will again try to point out that the MODE of "suggesting" can create the opposite effect than desired. In a small company (publisher or developer) some of your "flawless logic" can poison the waters to being considered or accepted. If anyone REALLY WANTED such companies to change their viewpoint then I have to feel that they wouldnt possibly word it the way I see it worded in threads like this. Such an action wouldnt make sense.

[Soyweiser]

Originally Posted by Gandalf Parker

Actually Im sorry Ive ever mentioned such forums. And conversations like this make me ever less likely to tell you where they are. I know others feel that way also since I can see multiple people on this forum and on Sombres who know of them. If you dont believe me, then great. Thanks for that. Lets keep it that way.

Wow... this reply is ... a bit childish. You really disappoint me here GD. Multiple 'secret' places where Dom3 is discussed is bad for the game you know.

[Gandalf Parker]

Originally Posted by Soyweiser

Wow... this reply is ... a bit childish. You really disappoint me here GD. Multiple 'secret' places where Dom3 is discussed is bad for the game you know.

I do feel bad about it. Its definitely not my usual style.
But Gandalf Parker is NOT going to be the one to publish the path to Shangri-La. Sorry about that.

I pay for that, but Im used to it. NDA's, Beta agreements, non-public forums, regular contact away from this site with Shrapnel and Illwinter staff. I often have to check my sources and back off because its something not public to this forum.

[Squirrelloid]

Wait, the names of other forums, presumably open to whomever wants to join, is somehow secret? lol.

[thejeff]

And they're Shangri-La. The secret heavenly forums.

Well, I'd hate to corrupt that with us common folk. Good job keeping it secret, Gandalf.

[Gandalf Parker]

Originally Posted by Squirrelloid

Wait, the names of other forums, presumably open to whomever wants to join, is somehow secret? lol.

Secret? no.
Really nice places and not eager to invite people on this forum to them? yes.
Does this thread not make this clear?

[Tim Brooks]

Your home? I guess we're your dysfunctional traumatized kids then.

Yes, maybe, but I don't even allow my child to talk to me this way. Next week we will start rewriting some of the forum rules here. These forums (our home) will be a kinder, gentler place.

We have never had this kind of discourse in our forums until Dominions 3. We realize this is a small group out of the many thousands that visit here each year. We don't understand it. But we won't put up with it anymore. You are more than welcome to disagree with us, to discuss what you think of our policies. To have intelligent debates. You just won't be allowed to attack us (or others) here. This will be a kinder, gentler place.

It's too late to try and create a community for this game from scratch

Why so? 2010 is shaping up to bring more members to our community than any year since release. The Dominions 3 crowd is growing, not shrinking. Since the sombre ban, we have added more new members than any 6 month period since game release. And that includes a 3 week period when new members were not being let in due to a coding error.

The only proper dedicated, structured(with subsections for multiplayer and mods etc) and active dom3 community apart from this that I could find was a Japanese one and the dom3mods fora (which is really a part of this one)

If you are looking for a site that will dedicate the bandwidth we do to one game, well, that probably doesn't exist. But there are other Dominions communities. Europe has three (try Cyberstratege in France). The Quarter-to-Three forums has several ongoing threads of dedicated Dominions 3 multiplayer gamers. But no, probably no forum that compares to here (We thought that was the sombre plan. And we were all for it.).