OT: US Pres election

[thejeff]

Note that there is a large distinction between voter registration fraud and voter fraud.

ACORN has often been accused of voter registration fraud, but not, to my knowledge, of actual voter fraud. Like any voter registration group they are required to submit all forms they receive to the registrar. This is to prevent groups from throwing out all the voters that register Republican, for example. They can, and often, but apparently not always, flag suspicious forms. In at least some cases the election officials have ignored these warnings and later accused ACORN of registration fraud.

Registration fraud is usually caught at that level, especially when it's like the commonly quoted examples of cartoon characters and celebrities. Examples of people actually voting under these false ids, which would be actual voter fraud, are extremely rare in recent cycles.

What hasn't been rare are attempts to keep people from voting. Purging voter lists under various criteria intended to hit one party's area harder; Lack of voting machines, causing long lines and discouraging voters, in precincts likely to vote heavily towards one party, etc, etc.
These have the potential to swing far more votes than traditional voter fraud.

[lch]

Semi-related of sorts: Anybody who hasn't played The Redistricting Game yet?

[Tifone]

Originally Posted by Atrocities

Socialists mainly share the belief that capitalism unfairly concentrates power and wealth into a small section of society who control capital, and creates an unequal society. All socialists advocate the creation of an egalitarian society, in which wealth and power are distributed more evenly.

...And this is a very, very, oh so wicked belief, because... ?

(Answer keeping in mind the almost 1 trillion dollars hole in your economy done by the people who were capitalizing your money, and will be dismissed by their societies with just a few million dollars for consolation, while you pay for their crazy investments, please)

[Atrocities]

Originally Posted by Tifone

...And this is a very, very, oh so wicked belief, because... ?

(Answer keeping in mind the almost 1 trillion dollars hole in your economy done by the people who were capitalizing your money, and will be dismissed by their societies with just a few million dollars for consolation, while you pay for their crazy investments, please)

You're right, there is no excuse for this bail out. It is the worst thing our elected officials have ever done. We were lied to again. Everyone in office now who voted for this bail out bill needs to be fired.

[Azselendor]

Nothing says incompetent government like throwing money at our problems. Drugs, Aids, immigration, iraq, now the economy.

[capnq]

Originally Posted by Tifone

...And this is a very, very, oh so wicked belief, because... ?

Because it removes most of the incentive to create more wealth to distribute "evenly". Because the people who decide how to distribute the wealth invariably siphon off a larger "equal" share than the people who don't make the decisions.

A soon as you have even one person who isn't satisfied with the "equal" share the government decides is "fair", socialism starts to fail. Socialism fails because it ignores basic human nature.

[Tifone]

Originally Posted by capnq

Because it removes most of the incentive to create more wealth to distribute "evenly". Because the people who decide how to distribute the wealth invariably siphon off a larger "equal" share than the people who don't make the decisions.

You are talking about a total different matter than mine. This is the corruption of this system (expecially you're thinking about URSS I suppose) and I was talking about the belief at the base of the system.

Originally Posted by capnq

A soon as you have even one person who isn't satisfied with the "equal" share the government decides is "fair", socialism starts to fail. Socialism fails because it ignores basic human nature.

If 2000 years ago I would have said you "hey, you know what I think it's wrong? That the men has an upper hand on the women in social roles! I mean, we're equal! And is wrong that we kill/crucify/lapidate/incinerate people because of their different religion/race/sexual orientation!" you would have said that I was ignoring the basic human nature of supremacy of the strong male on the weak female and the holiness of the rules that were used to bind us to kill people. Now you say they were against it (I hope). Think if in 1000 years people will think it was fair that in this time, 1/4 of humanity were eating up to explode, and 3/4 of were starving to death, because our "human nature" is against an equal distribution, capnq.

[Azselendor]

Some people would make you think socialism is a dirty 4-letter word. The fact of the matter is that socialism fails in some categories, but it succeeds in others. Like Taxation and welfare programs. Everyone paying their fair share of taxes is a good thing. Do you think EA games pays their share of taxes? no. Why, because they got the money to pay people to hide even more money.

Besides, people shouldn't be worried. No president since Nixon has accomplished any of their truly good campaign promises. No tax reform (unless it allowed the rich to pay less and the poor to pay more). No campaign finance (unless it allowed surrogates to raise and attack for you) and certainly no attention paid to the US Constitution (unless it suits them).

The real question, with the mass consolidation of power from the Bush administration, is how long until bush's own polices are turned against him.

[Bwaha]

I feel that any system, any, will become toxic without restraints, Capitalism, Socialism, whatever. We need to change the laws concerning incorporation. That the leaders of these companies can do anything they want to is wrong. And they can't be held liable for their crimes. This is our true problem. And since they control the courts and the various organs of state, I fear that this malady will never change.

[Atrocities]

Originally Posted by Tifone

...And this is a very, very, oh so wicked belief, because... ?

Socialism abrogates the power of the people and gives it the government thusly giving control to people who have proven that they can and will abuse said power. Look to the Soviet Union where the media was controlled by the state and any who dare ask a question of their leader, Stalin, would be killed, disappeared, or thrown in prison. Sound familiar?

The mainstream media in the US has basically become propaganda wing for the liberal democrats and Obama. Obama and the left wing leaders of Congress have pledged to enact the fairness doctrine which would shut down FOX news and conservative talk radio. Those who ask question, like Joe the plumber are crucified by not only Obama himself, but by the Obama controlled media. They say the republicans should have vetted Joe the plumber before McCain used his comments at the last debate. Honestly what does that say about the left when they say that average people who want to ask questions of Obama need to be vetted first? Come on. That sounds a lot like Stalinism to me.

Obama answered Joe's question (Joe being the middle name of Samuel Wurzelbacher) honestly thusly sounding the whole socialism bell. Then Obama decides that he didn't like his answer so he attacks Joe and then has his media smear machine go after him.

Obama claims Republicans are shouting "kill him" at Sarah Palin rallies which turned out to be untrue. He used this lie to make himself look like a victim of the bitter republicans who cling to guns and god in order to garner sympathy from undecided voters and move the topic away from his answer to Joe's question. But the question remains, and his answer stands, he wants to spread the wealth around, and that alarmed a great many people so Obama unleashed an attack campaign against an average guy for daring to ask him a question that proved out to be an embarrassment for Obama. What an elitist SOB Obama is for doing this. If you don't like the question or accidentally provide an honest answer that, in this case, illuminates your true nature and intentions, you must attack the asker and discredit him for asking the question. How deplorable and low can you go. Oh wait, it's ok because Obama is doing it. I forget that the Obama run media told me that it was fine and perfectly ok for Obama to do this to Joe.

When you control the information, you control the message, and in this case the danger is that when an average person cannot ask a question of those who wish to lead and then become a target of that candidate and his party to whom the question was asked who is safe? We all have questions and now, thanks to Obama's attack machine, are afraid to ask. This is not the old American way, but it is fast becoming the new American way the Obamanation way.

I will not vote for Obama because I do not like his politics or ideology and after this display of pure Stalinism, I am rapidly growing to dislike the man. Oops, that puts me at risk for incarceration following his election so I had better take that back or else. Or else this **|** Obama!