Devnull Mod Gold: updates and discussion - Page 23

mac5732 · #**221** July 17th, 2003, 06:14 AM

In playing sp, I found that the Sonne needs a little tweaking, they are not very strong and could use a boost to get on par with the rest of the AI's, IMHO only. I tried several games and they did not fare very well. I like the race and think its a great enhancement to the game but could use a little boost and make them a little tougher.... MHO only

just some ideas Mac

Cirvol · #**222** July 25th, 2003, 09:24 PM

is the gold upto 1.7 now?

what about the devnull4 game?

i just signed up

please fill me in?

mac5732 · #**223** July 26th, 2003, 06:11 AM

SE4 gold is up to 1.84, Delv mod is at 1.70

just some ideas mac

Silent Sorrow · #**224** July 27th, 2003, 06:57 PM

[never mind]

[ July 27, 2003, 17:59: Message edited by: Silent Sorrow ]

Rollo · #**225** July 28th, 2003, 01:34 AM

Binford - Hey, good to see that Devnull4 PBW game attracted so many players. I won't be able to join, though. Can't handle a large game with short game turns at the moment.

1FSTCAT - Currently changing the tech tree is not an option, since it will mean rework of the AI (again). If you want better sensors, try taking psychic-temporal combo.
Adding a new mount for long range can be considered, though. What kind of ship class did you have in mind for using it?
Heavy Bombardment Missle is already on the list for review the weapons. Along with Grav Hellbores and Incinerator Beam. Expect some changes to it in the next Version (whenever that will be...)

.

Mac - Can you be more specific about the Sonne AI? Where exactly are they lacking? Any suboptimal designs or tactics? In my tests when develop them they did pretty good. And I also got good feedback for them so far. Any hints are helpful, if I am to tweak them.

Cirvol - yep, 1.70 is the current released Version.

My apologies for things going slow. But it is summer afterall

.

Rollo

mac5732 · #**226** July 30th, 2003, 05:46 AM

Rollo, following observations in friends 7 games and my on going lst SP game ( all were SP games)

Sonne

1. appears their ability to build ships is limited. the speed in which they build appears somewhat slower the the rest example. human/Ai players build DN in 6 turns, takes Sonne 12, gives human player advantage in numbers. Appears their build cycles are almost twice as long as the other AI's and human player

2. Ship design little weak, they use almost all psy weapons, could use some other big weapons to help out

3. research ability slower then rest. Human/other Ai's have BB's & Dn's, Sonne had CA's

4. Don't appear to build Super DN's, Monitors and super monitors (havn't seen them in the 8 games played so far

Cuppa

1. seem weaker then in 1.84 original, not as fiesty or as strong. appear weaker and weaker in ship production as well, they don't build their ships in the quantities of 1.84. nor are they as strong

Flora

1. weak in intel especialy defensive, easy to steal against

General

Don't see the Ai building Super DN's, monitors or super Monitors, so far very rare if at all, IE' in my Sp game, the Ai"s are using mostly BB's no Dn's etc, as their later on basic warship, gives human player huge advantage, In my game I can see most of the map, however I have only seen l super DN among the 6 races, all the ships/fleets made up of BB's as their big gun ship.

Would like to see AI's use different make ups on their ships, IE different types of BB's some with one kind of weapons, another BB with other types thrown in. (same with all ship designs)

Please these are only my observations, IT's a great mod and I love playing it especially with all the new stuff, this is not in any way shape or form knocking the mod, only observations so far and I could be wrong, (it wouldn't be the lst time

) please don't take my observations in any wrong way... Myself and Mac's trouble makers all really enjoy the game

just some ideas Mac

Cirvol · #**227** July 30th, 2003, 08:35 PM

whats considered to be 'unbalanced' currently in terms of racial special techs?

i notice that some 'extra special' stuff comes up when you combine 2 of the big ones...

like org + relig
or psy + tempo
etc etc

what is everyones opinion on the balance?

Rollo · #**228** July 30th, 2003, 10:57 PM

Thanks for you feedback Mac. I appreciate it.

I will look into the designs of the Sonne. 12 turns for a DN is a long time indeed, esp. since they should use Temporal SY. Perhaps they use too many expensive weapons. But also from the other observations, maybe they just had a bad start. That would explain why they underperform in so many issues.

Your observations about the AI is correct. I often have them use BB as ship-of-the-line for some time. Each of the AI goes through different stages and a new ship size often goes hand in hand with a change of weapons and/or combat tactics, but they should all build DN and Super-DN eventually. About Monitors and Supermonitors, I am not so sure. Could be that I didn't do designs for them, but it has been a while since I Last worked on them. My new (yet unrealesed) temporal AI does use them, though.

There is always a certain element of chance, whether a race is doing good or not. Depending on the planets the AI finds early in the game. This especially true for Devnull Mod, where the chance of the AI lacking a resource is higher compared to unmodded SE4. This is not meant as an excuse and I have already improved the AI on that issue. I take your feedback seriously and will look into that.

Last but not least I like to say that I attempted to make the AI really different from each other: different weapons, tactics, priorities, and use of units. Not all of these choices are maximized to efficiency and make the AI as strong as possible, but I feel they make the game richer. (Heck, when I did the Flora, I just thought I had a nifty and different concept. It wasn't my goal to make them a killer AI. Just try something new.)

Last item: I am curiuos. What bonus do you give the AI in your SP games usually?

Rollo

Rollo · #**229** July 30th, 2003, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cirvol:
whats considered to be 'unbalanced' currently in terms of racial special techs?

i notice that some 'extra special' stuff comes up when you combine 2 of the big ones...

like org + relig
or psy + tempo
etc etc

what is everyones opinion on the balance?

Heh, I am not entirely sure myself here. I don't know if there has been enough playtesting for the combo techs. So far none has come forward and say: "Hey, this is too strong!"

Some of the combo techs are probably weaker or not so interesting as others. Personally I would be interested in a small PBW game where every player has to take at least two racial traits and get some feedback that way.

On overall balance I think DNM is a lot better balanced then SE4 standard. In fact when you look at the issues in the balance thread, most of them have been adressed in this mod.

Rollo

Devin Bass · #**230** July 31st, 2003, 07:36 PM

FYI Rollo,
I am currently playing the latest Devnull Mod and my Sonne are very tough! They are at the top of the food chain! I am only at Turn 155 and I regularly see fleets of 50-60 superdreadnaughts and accompanying Assault carriers. I have played several games and the Sonne are usually at the top or very near the top. They make killer ship designs too.
My game settings were large galaxy, high difficulty, mediumn AI bonus 13 players I also used Fryon's map generator.

Also, when is the next update coming? This mod is too good not to keep it going.

In the meantime, Thanks for all the hard work!