MP game: Nations at War. Started!

[Jurri]

Oh, man, sorry CU! You're gonna hate this one... The battle in Resting Heghts, that was what I call lame! (Although I had prepared for the possibility by choosing the defensive side via teleport, I hoped my Draco would be able to attack your mages at some point due to some glitch in the imps.) The one in Meer, well, you're likely to hate it as much, but I hope it will give you insight to the whole WS/AQ/Air Elemental matter.

jeffr: You continue to surprise me. That Moloch totally blind-sided me! Other than that it's looking a bit glum for you guys. That is to say, it's looking good for me!

[Alneyan]

Interesting: it is at least the second time Magic Duel doesn't quite work as expected. My current hunch is that Light of the Northern Star doesn't affect Magic Duel results (and/or perhaps Power of the Spheres); don't ask me why I think those spells are the problem. Another option, of course, is that the spell still doesn't work as intended. Hmm, that deserves a quick test...

[CUnknown]

Believe me, Jurri, that first battle before gave me plenty of insight into the whole AQ thing. Without mental attacks or lightning immunity, there's not a whole lot you can do. There really should be an item that allows you to fly in storms or something, it's too much of an advantage for only one type of SC to have.

Yeah, the Resting Heights battle was lame. But, omg is your pretender powerful as hell. I hope that thing costs a lot of points!

I give when you give, Jeffr.

[Jurri]

Gift of Kurgi! Winged Helmet used ta, but no more, too bad... I sure would like it if there was some item or spell or both that allowed it.

My pretender is really a work of art in itself, even if I do say so myself. I wanted it to be able to make the turn 1-3 kill and secure my holdings in the mid-game. It also has wish-potential for late game! And had points for order 3, magic 2 left over after taking dominion 10 (!)... With only death 1 and misfortune 2 to accompany the sloth and cold 3. I'd say the Dracolich is undercosted for its power in the Zen mod And not by a little, at that!

[jeffr]

"I give when you give, Jeffr."

Do you really think there is no hope? It doesn't seem like it, although I have my Moloch back (woohoo and I'm willing to keep trying for a while if you are.

Jurri, you played a great game. Did you ever even build a national unit? I don't remember seeing any non PD Giants, or even Jotunheim mages, but we didn't meet for a while so mabye I missed them.

I look forward to our next game

[CUnknown]

I think there's no hope because I had three powerful armies that all died doing basically nothing. I don't know what else to do but to make another one of them....but I doubt they'd be able to do anything either.

The things I am doing that are actually having an effect are: inciting unrest with spies, and assassinating his mages with earth attack and with actual assassins. I'm pretty sure he's hurting for money, more or less. But then again, so am I. I'm also pretty sure that I can kill almost all of his mages if we keep playing for another 15-20 turns. But, what does that really get us? He'll still wipe us out with his SCs. If he gets some good money provinces from us, he'd be able to replace the mages anyway.. But, I can count on a good 5 mages killed a turn.

[Jurri]

jeffr said:
Did you ever even build a national unit? I don't remember seeing any non PD Giants, or even Jotunheim mages, but we didn't meet for a while so mabye I missed them.

I look forward to our next game

Not really, I guess... I did build a coupla archers on turn 1 to assist the mercs in cracking Boron's fort, do those count? The fact of the matter is, that Jotun troops have maybe the worst effectivity/cost ratio of any national troops. You need an insane amount of them to really take advantage of their strengths, and that's gonna cost like hell. The problem, as I'm sure you know, is the morale: the poor giants have to roll, like, thrice as many morale checks as regular joes without having that much better morale. Sure sure, you could include some hirdmen or some such but they suck in other areas and are expensive... Think, I can get a 7rp/turn mage (with my magic 2) for the price of three stinking giants! And said mage will certainly be more effective on the battlefield, with Nether Bolt/Darts and all.

The mages I of course have in oodles. So much so that I'm not going to do anything to CU's earth attacks, as it's a good thing if he wastes 20 earth gems a turn to kill my mages. Frees up money to buy forts, and I don't really need them anymore since you don't have any armies that would require their particular abilities to defeat. And of course I've my research done since a while ago. (Well, not done done, but you know what I mean!)

I've managed to secure enough of an earth income that I can equip some scouts with flying boots and gate cleavers, in case you're wondering how this troopless paradigm handles forts. In the mid-game I used vine ogres and wolves to take down Pasha's forts, but the ogres are dead and well past their prime, effectivity-wise, anyway... Other than that, I really didn't even plan to take forts before this, trusting on my dragon to keep me safe from outside intervention before the SC-train was ready to leave

You guys should get me drunk more often, look how gabby I get! And I wanna fight ya both again some time, too... Hey, come join the Yet another Game, it hasn't yet started.

[jeffr]

I don't know. You've proven, I think, from a competitive standpoint, 95% (or more) of the stuff in Dominions is useless. It really doesn't matter what nation you take as long as the mages are good enough to get you to the few summons and spells that matter. Don't get me wrong. A lot of people like this. Your strategy is just the purest form of the mage/summons/castling winning strategy that I've seen so far. I could also be missing something and talking out my a**

It's also possible that I'm just a sore loser and want the game to function as I want it to It's just that there is so much variety present in Dom2, I think it's a shame all most all of it seems to be just fluff. I doubt the designers intended for it to be this way.

Maybe all of Zen's mods need to be used together if the intention is to inject a little variety into the game. On that note, maybe you should post your Dracolich strategy in the Zen mod thread. I think they are looking for feedback. As you mention, it seems that the Dracolich is either underpriced or should have his immortality removed (not a good idea, in my opinion) or his protection and/or defense reduced or something. But, maybe not.

But, I'm stubborn. So I'll play again, try to counter your troopless strategy (without resorting to the same strategy myself - no point in that, it's been done), and probably end up in the same situation

It is fun, though, trying to think of counters. It's called "Yet another game", you say? I'll have to check it out to see if there are any crazy rules or if the map is too big. I played one game on Faerun (sp?) and never again, man.

[Jurri]

jeffr said:
I don't know. You've proven, I think, from a competitive standpoint, 95% (or more) of the stuff in Dominions is useless. It really doesn't matter what nation you take as long as the mages are good enough to get you to the few summons and spells that matter.

Oh, I don't think so! At least in my experience games can be won with different means too. Certainly it's important to acknowledge the role SCs and castles and such play in the game, but the way I played this one is not the only way to go. In my opinion, that is; obviously a segment of the players disagree considering the various balance-mods. Which are cool, too, at least you don't get bored trying to think your way out of the same box every time. Now that I think about it, I think this is the first time I've used such a pure-bred SC-strat... Seemed to fit the settings particularly well, that's all.

Maybe all of Zen's mods need to be used together if the intention is to inject a little variety into the game. On that note, maybe you should post your Dracolich strategy in the Zen mod thread. I think they are looking for feedback. As you mention, it seems that the Dracolich is either underpriced or should have his immortality removed (not a good idea, in my opinion) or his protection and/or defense reduced or something. But, maybe not.

I guess I should, but my impression is that there is always someone waiting just to say how much I suck for not seeing the obvious way to counter the strat. That is to say, I'm not wholly impressed of the way the community functions when someone proposes any balance-related arguments. Just check the latest in that self-same thread. The dialect is too much for my tender sensibilities. Yeah, I'm a wuss.

It is fun, though, trying to think of counters. It's called "Yet another game", you say? I'll have to check it out to see if there are any crazy rules or if the map is too big. I played one game on Faerun (sp?) and never again, man.

Yeah:
The link to the thread
Nothing too wonky. Aside from all kinds of diplomacy being banned Old Diplomacy-players recognize the 'gunboat'-variant Gotta be fun... And the roster looks great, too!

[CUnknown]

"So much so that I'm not going to do anything to CU's earth attacks, as it's a good thing if he wastes 20 earth gems a turn to kill my mages."

I was really trying to get to your clam-carriers, I know you've got them! Are hidden scouts unable to be targeted by earth attacks?
I guess they are. Oh well.


"Now that I think about it, I think this is the first time I've used such a pure-bred SC-strat... Seemed to fit the settings particularly well, that's all."

Well...I was really trying to improve the effectiveness of national armies under these settings. I disagree that these settings encourage a castle-and-cast strategy -- you'll be overrun in the early game by someone who built an army! However, no one attacked you in the early game, you had an overpowered god, and you were next to Man (who didn't do much and quit after like 5 turns or something). Actually, you would have been impossible to kill in the early game with your immortal dragon god (what were they thinking???) and 10 dominion.

Under normal circumstances, these settings would encourage having armies, I think.

I am going to turn off the game, unless someone objects?

Congradulations, Jurri!