SP, MLRS and SPAA Developments

[DRG]

Pat, all we can do is wait and see

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

The nice thing we do have going with all this equipment is...

1. The Ukraine isn't changing the names of what they're getting, which means...

2. We just have to bring them over from the donating countries OOB's unchanged SINCE they're sending their front-line equipment in most cases with the same ammo. This I know is a simplistic to all get really is involved.

Not much but, again could be worse.

Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Refer to Posts #217 & #221 for the following if needed.

I feel strongly I can confirm those M270 MRLS that arrived in the Ukraine on the 15th of this month are from the UK.

I already knew the UK started training crews on theirs before Norway and Germany and us "bringing up the rear".

Also, the following ref. tells me the same, for what it's not saying concerning the M270 MRLS. It does NOT mention "Training is still ongoing..." or "The M270 MRLS upon completion of training is expected to be delivered sometime..."

Why does this matter about who sent it?

Because the UK versions have fairly recently been updated (FCS etc. etc.) almost to the standard of our new M2 version which the USA just took delivery of the FIRST UNIT last week. This also allows for the firing of the newer longer-range ATACMS (300km Rng.) missiles.

But for immediate game value, concerning the UK version it has a much better protected crew cab and a new engine which will increase its speed.

You'll also note in the first ref. that the UK helped the Ukraine buy the additional (20) Belgium M109A4BE 155mm tracked self-propelled howitzers they didn't buy.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...05mm_guns.html
https://euroweeklynews.com/2022/07/1...ed-in-ukraine/

Regards,
Pat

[DRG]

Artillery & The War in Ukraine - Developments, lessons, & logistics


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMEpxX7rS5I

[blazejos]

Here article about PZH2000 and Cesar service on frontline

https://en.defence-ua.com/weapon_and...ideo-3604.html

MT-12 Rapira Guns for National Guard
https://en.defence-ua.com/weapon_and...hoto-3627.html

And mentioned earlier MT-LB with helicopters pods they were build in some number already during war in Donbas 2015

Here K-52 helicopter pods on ordinary pickup
https://en.defence-ua.com/weapon_and..._way-3355.html


Krab on Front-line together with support vehicles
https://www.steelbeasts.com/topic/10...comment-226789

Here K-52 cannibalised rockets pods on ordinary pickup
https://en.defence-ua.com/weapon_and..._way-3355.html

other vehicle with S-8 rockets they may be build in bigger numbers
https://gagadget.com/pl/135834-ukrai...ego-samochodu/
https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraina/com...ome_ukrainian/
https://ukrainetoday.org/2022/06/06/...pickup-trucks/

And here immortal UAZ-469 with Grad tubes "miniature Katyusha"
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FWSkZrlWQAEewtj.jpg:large

And ordinary Ukrainian Technical with NSV 12.7mm on pickup
https://en.defence-ua.com/weapon_and...ians-3626.html

Video about all types o this improvised MLRS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHb5hw8i3Iw

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

First GEPARDS are in country now. First source refers to 3 in country as of the end of last week. They have been refurbished and fully overhauled as needed. Uses both Airburst HE-FRAG and AP rounds.

As ref. 2 points out they will be very effective especially as most of what they will be shooting at was around when the GEPARD was first introduced. They can also handle easily any low flying modern craft as well.

Also found it interesting that the radar will effectively pick up targets at 9 miles allowing enough "heads up" for the crew as the craft approaches the 3 mile "kill zone".
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...raft_tank.html
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...639ec05d9981d4

VACA over back to the "grind"

Regards,
Pat

[Karagin]

I just saw a report that France is no longer sending any more CEASER SPA systems to Ukraine other than what they sent. Not sure of the validity of the report, since said report had no link, so has anyone else heard anything?

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

With the following (NOT THAT I NEEDED IT.) further verifies that the first M270 MRLS systems were from the UK as per Posts #217 #221 & #223.

With that established, Germany has just delivered 3 additional PzH 2000 155mm and 3 MARS II (German version of the M270 MRLS.) systems from ref. 1 ...

"The MARS II of the German army is equipped with a new European Fire Control System (EFC) enabling the firing of guided rockets called GMLRS. It can also fire M31 GMLRS, M31A1, M32, AT2 and 110 mm rockets, but not of M26, M26A1, and M30, so as to ensure full compliance with the Convention on Cluster Munitions. "

"...GMLRS is now able to conduct high-precision engagement of point and individual targets and is used as an artillery sniper weapon. The MARS II rocket has a minimum engagement range of 15 km and can hit a target up to 70 km. It also integrates a 90 kg unitary warhead, providing precision strikes for point targets."

Also concerning GEPARD the correct number received was 5 units vice 3. So, the Ukraine is operating 1 battery of them.

"Citing information from the German Defense Minister Christine Lambrecht, Germany has already delivered five Gepard 35mm mobile self-propelled anti-aircraft armored vehicles..."
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...r_systems.html

Concerning CAESAR I start with the following... "The reports of my demise are premature." because France is in the process of sending six more.

Dated from the 20th...
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...o_ukraine.html

Frances's issue is that they are bound by law to maintain 77 units but 18 (Including the 6 from above.) have been "gifted" by France to the Ukraine.

They simply need to make more.

"...among the 77 CAESAR self-propelled howitzers that it must possess, in accordance with the format defined in the report annexed to the Military Programming Law (LPM) 2019 -25, the French Army currently has only 58 left as a result of its gifts to Ukraine."

How fast not very and this is a GOOD EXCERCISE to understand how long it takes to build major combat equipment as taken from the following ref below again.

"It now remains to be seen how Nexter and its subcontractors will organize themselves to accelerate their production rate, especially since the CAESAr has also attracted foreign customers, namely Belgium (28 CAESAR NGs) (Mine: That's the 8x8 version in a different configuration as well that Switzerland is currently looking at). Currently, it takes 18 months to produce a unit."
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...o_ukraine.html

They could "technically" send maybe another battery as long as they replace them. And as the immediate above ref indicates, they have some options on how to get there.

Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Germany is officially announcing that 8 GEPARDS have thus far been delivered the Ukraine.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...rn_trucks.html

I am still somewhat surprised by how effective this unit is.

The following taken from the article as "dissected"...

"fully autonomous air defense system thanks to its S-band search radar mounted at the rear of the turret and a Ku-band Doppler tracking radar fitted at the front"

"able to detect and track aerial targets at a maximum range of 15 km."

Effective Gun range...
"about 3,500 m and more than 4,500 m with (Frangible Armor Piercing Discarding Sabot) ammunition. "

They were sent the FAPDS along with the other as already posted, I believe to be an HE-FRAG munition.

Regards,
Pat

[MarkSheppard]

THE FUTURE IS NOW, OLD MAN.

LINK

‘Bullet made out of light’: Army to field first Stryker-mounted combat laser in next 45 days

In addition to the directed energy system for the Stryker, the Army is looking at a small laser for a smaller vehicle.

By ANDREW EVERSDEN
on August 10, 2022 at 4:26 PM

U.S. Army Soldiers with Alpha Battery, 5th Battalion, 4th Air Defense Artillery, 10th Army Air & Missile Defense Command, conduct drivers Training on the M-SHORAD stryker, May 25, 2021, at the Oberdachstetten Range Complex, Germany. (U.S. Army photo by Georgios Moumoulidis)

SMD 2022 — The US Army’s rapid capabilities office plans to deliver its first combat laser to Stryker units in next few weeks and is moving ahead with a project to mount a laser weapon on another vehicle, according to the office’s director.

Speaking at the Space and Missile Defense Symposium in Huntsville, Ala., Lt. Gen. Neil Thurgood, head of the Rapid Capabilities and Critical Technologies Office, said today the first battery of Directed Energy-Maneuver Short-Range Air Defense (DE M-SHORAD) will go to an air defense battery at Fort Sill, Okla. in the next 45 days.

The DE M-SHORAD program, one of the Army’s top 35 modernization priorities, mounts a 50-kilowatt laser onto a Stryker vehicle. It’s designed to defend soldiers against drones from size group one (up to 20 pounds) through three (up to 1,320 pounds), in addition to rockets, mortars and artillery. Thurgood said during a presentation that the Army still has “a lot to learn” about directed energy, but said the tactics, techniques and procedures (TTPs) will largely remain the same.

“The TPPs for firing a laser are almost like the TPPs for firing a bullet,” Thurgood said. “It’s just a bullet made out of light — that’s the only differences. The kill chain is the same.”

Thurgood said the DE M-SHORAD system has already participated in two live fire events. At the first live fire, the platform was able to “track” mortar rounds, but didn’t take them out. After six additional months of work, the DE M-SHORAD program was able to defeat the mortars.

To better protect smaller infantry units, Thurgood said that RCCTO recently kicked off a project to put a 20-kilowatt laser on an infantry squad vehicle, a small troop transport that can carry nine soldiers. The new project, called the Army Multi-Purpose High Energy Laser (AMP-HEL), will be delivered in FY2023.

The capabilities of the 20-kilowatt laser for AMP-HEL are more limited than its Stryker-mounted counterpart, and can only defend against group one and two unmanned systems. Soldiers would still be vulnerable to group three drones and rockets, artillery and mortars.

The Army is investing hundreds of millions of dollars in counter-unmanned aerial systems as the proliferation of low-cost drones threatens soldiers and installations both abroad and domestically. In conflicts abroad in just the last few years, drones have been proven their effectiveness in delivering munitions on targets, artillery spotting and other reconnaissance missions. In fiscal 2022 appropriations, Congress gave the Army $434 million for counter-UAS efforts, up from its budget request of $60 million.

I'm still not quite sure how to implement actual laser weapons in MBT.

1.) Smoke and dust can affect lasers; unlike regular weapons.

2.) Damage capability / targets they can defeat are still variable --

A 50 KW laser can shoot down stuff weighing up to 1,320 pounds, from rockets, mortars, artillery shells, small aircraft and drones; and it could probably damage an incoming fighter jet (blind it's sensors, or burn a hole in a wing) forcing an abort.

While a 20 KW laser can only down small drones and can't defend from artillery/rockets/mortars.