what about the future?

[HoneyBadger]

I don't know what the argument is. You've got a Forum, and that's great. The whole "but it's got this, and this, and this" effort is starting to sound just a tiny bit insecure at this point, however, especially since noone's really disagreeing.

[rdonj]

Originally Posted by HoneyBadger

I don't know what the argument is. You've got a Forum, and that's great. The whole "but it's got this, and this, and this" effort is starting to sound just a tiny bit insecure at this point, however, especially since noone's really disagreeing.

Well, when gandalf continually implies otherwise, there's a certain point to bringing it up, isn't there? But thanks for that. It's good to know that we dysfunctional children have a counselor ready to help us with our issues.

[Foodstamp]

Originally Posted by Squirrelloid

Err... False dichotomy.

The difference is that on dom3mods, people can say what they mean and not have to worry about the niceness police descending on them. Enforcing 'niceness' rules encourages all sorts of destructive passive-aggressive behavior that is openly nice but the impact is anything but, and this can only be stopped by letting people call BS when they see it. Ie, a community is perfectly capable of enforcing its own standards of behavior, and indeed, when the rules come down against the community, the community will logically feel attacked.

Regardless, dom3mods engages in all the sorts of activity you attribute as being the sole province of this forum. New players can still ask questions (and do, although much of that happens on IRC instead). Fun games still happen (eg, Nostalgia). And non-serious discussion certainly occurs (there's an entire subforum dedicated to it!). The difference is that on the one forum the community determines acceptable behavior, while on the other acceptable behavior is declared from on high.

Wow, where to start?

The bans were handed out for breaking forum rules. It wasn't a matter of correcting people for being wrong about the nuisances of the game. Your master harassed new players, he insulted other members of the community on a daily basis for little to no reason, he was an all around pretty rotten guy to everyone except for your little group. The bans that came after his were delivered because the people wanted to be banned.

A community with rules does not promote passive-aggressive behavior. In this particular case, it ensured that people were treated equally on the forums. Shrapnel has a obligation to its customers to provide a forum that allows for all people to participate without worrying about intimidation from other forum goers.

You tout your new forum as being free, but really it is not that much different than this one. Instead of a handful of moderators making the rules, you have a handful of people who got banned from here. To say that your whole forum decides the rules is absurd, there is little chance that you could get everyone to participate in such decisions which means that the core members of the forums will decide what happens.

Finally, Shrapnel's forum rules are pretty standard as far as forums go; so drop the forum nazi crap. The only thing that is different here is your disbelief that a heavily active modder could be punished for being a douche bag.

[HoneyBadger]

rdonj, you're welcome to beat your point into the ground as thoroughly as the ground will stand it.

And I very much agree with the naivete involved in assuming any online Forum is somehow going to either "work", or remain, as a benevolent anarchy.

[rdonj]

It's funny, I come into this thread to tell one person I think he's making a mistake and that there's going to be more political fallout... and apparently I'm getting on everyone's hit list BUT the one guy I took issue with. You people are driving me crazy, and I feel no need to defend myself against things I never did. I don't appreciate those arguments, they are a waste of my time and energy. However, in the interests of being technically correct, I would like to point out that fantomen and I are most definitely not the same person.

On a completely unrelated note, the characterization of Sombre as our master was hilarious. Thanks for that one stampy.

[Wrana]

Originally Posted by WraithLord

I played D1 quite a lot and not sure I dig what you mean buy that comment.

Bless was different, there were no themes nor eras, maps dynamically changed according to dom effects and the GUI was much more limited. Magic system was more or less the same minus new spells if memory serves.

I think maps dynamically changing was a great thing thematically. Maybe it made actual multiplay somewhat less balanced, but I personally could easily live with it!
From Dom 2 to Dom 3 at least 1 spell - Astral Weapon was also removed. Maybe some were from Dom 1 to Dom 2, too.

[HoneyBadger]

Yeah, that did catch my eye, Wrana. I wonder what it was like? I imagine something like desert areas transforming into forests or swamps, which would be pretty neat.

Especially with things like "stronger in mountains/forests" abilities, and certain spells, now that I think about it...

[Tim Brooks]

Repression got you into this situation, more repression will make it worse.

See, and I think 'repression' (your word, not mine) got us out of a bad situation. People were leaving the forums, and new registrations were way down. Now things are turning around.

Not only because banning one member upsets others, but also because banning a member here doesn't really remove that person from the community...

I'll settle for them being removed from our forums. I don't want them to stop being a part of the community at large, I don't want them to stop playing Dominions. Anyone is welcome here if they can live with the rules. If they can't they aren't wlecome here.

You'll achieve close to nothing, but take the full hit from the anger it causes.

You assume we will let that anger be conveyed here. As I have already said, we are through allowing that kind of behavior here.

Every single person you banned along with sombre is still part of this community, still play in games organized here, still takes part in discussions etc. Either through IRC or dom3mods.

Okay, that is a good thing, right?

I'll stay around here too if you don't mind, I love the crowd here.

Your more than welcome here. We are not trying to turn this into a forum where everyone has to agree with us. We will turn it into a forum where everyone will, at least here, show us and the community here, common courtesy.

[Squirrelloid]

Originally Posted by Foodstamp

Wow, where to start?

The bans were handed out for breaking forum rules. It wasn't a matter of correcting people for being wrong about the nuisances of the game.

Um. What? When did I *ever* say that. I think you need your eyes examined, since you clearly didn't read the post you were replying to.

I'm talking about the difference in 'rules' of community behavior being established and enforced by the community vs. being established and enforced by someone outside the community. I don't know what you're talking about.

Your master harassed new players, he insulted other members of the community on a daily basis for little to no reason, he was an all around pretty rotten guy to everyone except for your little group. The bans that came after his were delivered because the people wanted to be banned.

lol, master. Hilarious. Because having my own thoughts that are different from yours clearly means i must be in thrall to someone you dislike.

Maybe you should look at the thread which actually led to him getting banned. He was harassing someone for a pretty good reason, and that someone was engaging in a *lot* of passive-aggressive behavior. (That of course was only the ultimate cause. The proximate cause was declaring the initial penalty was laughable, which had nothing to do with anything he did in public).

A community with rules does not promote passive-aggressive behavior. In this particular case, it ensured that people were treated equally on the forums. Shrapnel has a obligation to its customers to provide a forum that allows for all people to participate without worrying about intimidation from other forum goers.

Ah, naivete.

All communities have rules. Communities encourage desired modes of behavior and discourage undesired modes of behavior by engaging in discouraging or reinforcing behavior. It doesn't require forum rules with moderators enforcing them for a community to have rules of behavior. Thus all forums (and all communities) also engage in intimidation to some degree to enforce their notion of what is proper. There is no such place as an intimidation-free community.

And not all rules encourage passive-aggressive behavior. But rules which discourage conflict do, because passive-aggressive behavior is all about provoking conflict without appearing to be engaging in conflict yourself.

You tout your new forum as being free, but really it is not that much different than this one. Instead of a handful of moderators making the rules, you have a handful of people who got banned from here.

err.. and why is that a relevant juxtaposition? Unrelated statements are unrelated.

To say that your whole forum decides the rules is absurd, there is little chance that you could get everyone to participate in such decisions which means that the core members of the forums will decide what happens.

No, I didn't say the whole forum decides. I said the community decides. Being part of the community requires active participation. And it isn't necessarily (or even likely to be) something the community actively decides, its something that the behavior of members of the community decides.

Finally, Shrapnel's forum rules are pretty standard as far as forums go; so drop the forum nazi crap. The only thing that is different here is your disbelief that a heavily active modder could be punished for being a douche bag.

Seriously, did you actually read my post? I'd like to read the post you did read, because it sounds way more fanciful and entertaining than what I wrote.

(most importantly, i didn't pass judgement on either forum, i just pointed out what the consequences of enforcing 'niceness' rules is. And there is passive-aggressive behavior on this forum that would not be tolerated on the other one.)

[Gandalf Parker]

Sheesh I was was just trying to be diplomatic. Of course any forum CAN be anything. I was just trying to paint a picture of both forums using terms inoffensive to both sides. Instead you want to paint a picture that your forum does not offend anyone and this one is all wrong (there isnt really a majority agreement on either of those).

I think most regulars know that my personal description of the other forum and the people on it are nothing close to what I posted. But to say so, I would have to go there (yes I fully understand that is one of your selling points). I happen to recognize that such a post would not fit the environment desired here.

And I agree with that. New people here do not need a double barrel of my opinion on what some of you are posting. I dont have to live here and demand a right to vent. There are other forums for that.