Newbiegame3 , evil error

[Huzurdaddi]

looks altogether too much like a two way race between Abysia and Pythium

Well I have been in this position many times with Pythium .. heck almost every time I play them. I can assure you I am no threat to winning the game. Their early game is exceptionally strong.

Pythium's end game is so pathetic it's sad. No really. It's freakishly horrible. Now if I had blood or death OTOH ... well then we could talk.

And I had to pay the price of a combat pretender for where I am. Abysia had to pay ... nothing.

giving her TC gem income into the bargain is hardly a good thing for the game, as a whole.

Yep. Going to go swell. *sigh* this game is quite random at times. Sooner or later it will go random in my direction, I'm sure.

[Ygorl]

A newbie question: what's the point of having PD of 1?
A bit of wise advice: the game is certainly early enough that development with an eye towards resisting the infamous and inevitable Abysian hordes could make a big difference. It's a huge map, a lot can happen yet.

[Cohen]

Thurfir, an advice.
If you went to 155 and wanted to save army, didn't engage, enter the province, set your army all behind with retreat oder.
C'tis capitol will return to his owner due to castle inside.
So unless C'tis was coming into 178, you'd have all your army saved.
If C'tis however has gone in 178 you'll get wiped out even without fighting.

For Pythium being weak in late game, I'd laugh at you. Pythium is far stronger than Abysya, with communion you can cast a very wide range of massive killing spells of ANY kind. Pretty difficult to find the right resistances against Pyth even for SCs.

The use of 1 PD in every province. If you've 0 PD, you don't see the battle, and you know only the enemy has taken you the province.
With 1 PD that costs 1 gold only, you see the battle, you know at least the exact enemy army composition, and what items they've.
With 5-10 PD (costing respectively 15 and 55) you gain:
Some chances to resist to a single scout/assassin and perhaps the hawks. Some PD can hold wolves too like Ulm PD.
With 10 you gain some not pop killing patrol and better chances to resist hawks and wolves.

[Huzurdaddi]

For Pythium being weak in late game, I'd laugh at you. Pythium is far stronger than Abysya, with communion you can cast a very wide range of massive killing spells of ANY kind. Pretty difficult to find the right resistances against Pyth even for SCs.

I've played Pythium a couple of times. I think ( but I could be mistaken ) that I know what I am talking about. Pythium's late game is crud. Sorry. It blows chunks.

Blood OTOH is solid in the end game.

Pythium's only shot for the end game is clams. Or somehow develop a blood economy and hope that as the blood SCs get poped that you can claim them.

Everyone talks about communion being great in the late game. It sucks. It is *super* in the early game. It crushes in the early game. In the late game the big armies are asking for a spell to wipe them out.

[Huzurdaddi]

kind. Pretty difficult to find the right resistances against Pyth even for SCs.

Really? How about an AMA and a ring of tamed lighting? That sounds about right. That is all you need.

Please stop with the crud. You got handed a huge chunk of amazing lands. You have only 3 neighbors : T'ien Ch'i, C'tis and Jotunheim. T'ien Ch'i is dead, someone else killed all of his troops and now you have all of his lands. C'tis is simply not a factor. Jotunhiem took a long time to get started and I have no idea what kind of a factor he will be.

Of course we will play it out. But barring some kind of crazy accident it's pretty clear to me what will be the outcome is of this game.

[Thufir]

Cohen said:
Thurfir, an advice.
If you went to 155 and wanted to save army, didn't engage, enter the province, set your army all behind with retreat oder.
C'tis capitol will return to his owner due to castle inside.
So unless C'tis was coming into 178, you'd have all your army saved.
If C'tis however has gone in 178 you'll get wiped out even without fighting.

For Pythium being weak in late game, I'd laugh at you. Pythium is far stronger than Abysya, with communion you can cast a very wide range of massive killing spells of ANY kind. Pretty difficult to find the right resistances against Pyth even for SCs.

The use of 1 PD in every province. If you've 0 PD, you don't see the battle, and you know only the enemy has taken you the province.
With 1 PD that costs 1 gold only, you see the battle, you know at least the exact enemy army composition, and what items they've.
With 5-10 PD (costing respectively 15 and 55) you gain:
Some chances to resist to a single scout/assassin and perhaps the hawks. Some PD can hold wolves too like Ulm PD.
With 10 you gain some not pop killing patrol and better chances to resist hawks and wolves.

Said like a true veteran! Kudos, Cohen!

[Thufir]

Huzurdaddi said:
Well I have been in this position many times with Pythium .. heck almost every time I play them. I can assure you I am no threat to winning the game. Their early game is exceptionally strong.

Pythium's end game is so pathetic it's sad. No really. It's freakishly horrible. Now if I had blood or death OTOH ... well then we could talk.

I am sympathetic, as I have had the same thing happen to me the one time I played Pythium. That said, I am absolutely convinced it has an endgame. Sadly, I just don't know what that endgame is, and thus cannot advise.

I hope you are clamming right now. You're probably smarter than this, but one thing I didn't realise in my first game playing Pythium is that with water bracelet you can be clamming before turn 10. (I know this is stupid, but I was waiting for a 2W Arch Theurg, and then empowered when I didn't get one.)

It's possible that it takes a real expert to take advantage of Pythium's astral, but I do believe exploiting Pythium's astral strength is very important for the end game. Pythium is also in a better position than most nations to go for Wish. Another thing I'll mention (repeating various Posts I've read), is that Pythium's relatively early ability to afford and cast Acashic record may be one key to a winning endgame. So far in MP play, I have found most of my casting bonus sites via Acashic record, rather than searching, and these do potentially have a real impact on play.

These are just a couple of thoughts, I don't have enough experience to say if they have merit. But I do have a ton of experience playing various strategy games, and I have read a lot of Posts on this board, and I am absolutely convinced that Pythium has an endgame, and should not be regarded as early game (only) power.

Finally, as much as I have put the game into a bad spot by my untimely demise (driven, I admit, by poor judgement and sloppy play), there is still sufficient distributed power in this game to defeat Abysia, and as such, this game's end is not a forgone conclusion.

Edit:

Your own thread ( here) has lots of excellent advice on devil counters. You seemed pretty sceptical about archaeolept's advice, but that sounded to me like it was worth a shot. I think there is more to it then what he put in his Posts, but I do think that mages (possibly with communion) can be a part of anti-devil strategy, and that SCs and/or devils are not the only way to success in the endgame in Dom2.

[Thufir]

BTW, for the newbies in this game, if you are in a position where you must/want to fight Abysia, be prepared to fight devils. In my second MP game I was playing Pythium against Abysia, and had a strong upperhand for a good while until his Abysia's devil armies came into play. There's some excellent info on countering devils in a thread, started by Huzurdaddi( here), although you should ignore the flamefest at the end.

[Huzurdaddi]

I hope you are clamming right now.

Nope not yet. I have not had the time to go for construction yet ( sacrilege! ). I've had to go for alteration ( for the SC and for body etherial ) and for evocation ( for the main armies ) and for thaumaturgy ( for uhm, soul slay ... just in case ).

Some day soon I hope I will be able to spare the cycles to go for construction, but I need conjuration ( Acashic record ) as well.

It will be some time before I can clam.

there is still sufficient distributed power in this game to defeat Abysia, and as such, this game's end is not a forgone conclusion.

Sadly in terms of geography he is set. While there is enough forces in the world to take him out ( hell I could do it right now and fricking would ... if I was anywhere near him ) there is nothing in his area. We'll just have to play it out.

fight Abysia, be prepared to fight devils

True enough. I would be more worried about SC's though. While Mictlain may get some of them I doubt he will get all of them. A properly equipped ID can take on as many normal devils as you can throw at it. And the SC's cost less total resources to make a fearsome fighting machine than soul contracts do.

Anyway you are right on with the thread you referenced it contains some good information on fighting devils.

[Thufir]

Huzurdaddi said:

True enough. I would be more worried about SC's though. While Mictlain may get some of them I doubt he will get all of them. A properly equipped ID can take on as many normal devils as you can throw at it. And the SC's cost less total resources to make a fearsome fighting machine than soul contracts do.

I'm surprised to see your concern about Ice Devils (I assume ID=Ice Devil, right?). When playing Abysia, I skip Ice Devils and go right to Arch Devils. Doesn't summoning Ice Devils require getting a Warlock whose random is 1W, forging a water bracelet, then empowering a Warlock on top of that? And, then when you're done with that they still don't have fire immunity, and have a cold aura that certainly isn't compatible with your army. I would've guessed that it's smarter to let Mictlan have the Ice Devils, and make sure that you beat Mictlan to the punch in summoning Arch Devils.