Adamant Mod Discussion Thread

[Ed Kolis]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
I was thining of having "heavy" Versions of a lot of weapons that are slower to fire, have bonuses to range, damage, +10 to hit, and the first three range values are 0 damage, to create blind spots. I might also have "medium" weapons that are in between "light" and "heavy" in damage, range, etc., but have no bonus to hit and only the first damage value a 0, for a small blind spot.

If you do that, you might want to get rid of or rename the "Heavy Mount", as it would be kind of silly to have a Heavy Mounted Light Antiproton Beam May I suggest Overloaded mount as an alternate name?

BTW, I like the "blind spot" idea, but since there's no way to get the combat AI to engage at a specific range, I'm not sure how it would work with "optimal firing range" - would it actually try to get in the right range to fire, or would it just close to point blank and not be able to hit anything?

Do you have any specific ideas on how Physical, Organic and Magic weapons can be differentiated? Such as general trends that all Physical weapons follow that Organic and Magic ones do not.

I imagine that in terms of physical vs. energy weapons, as you said before with the strength against shields vs. strength against hull, that organics would have more physical weapons, magicals would have more energy weapons, and physical races would actually have a balance (not physical weapons as you might expect ) The organic races might also have "melee" weapons - range one weapons that represent a space creature's claws, teeth, tails, etc. I'd imagine most organic weapons (except the melee weapons) would use a lot of supplies, but then I'm just going by the P&N "supplies = physical stuff, radioactives = energy" model... I might guess that magical weapons would tend to have longer range than their physical or organic equivalents, since magic can be cast, well, magically, at a distance. (edit: also, to-hit bonuses... how often have you seen a "cause major wounds" spell miss? )

[ August 05, 2003, 04:47: Message edited by: Ed Kolis ]

[Fyron]

BTW, I like the "blind spot" idea, but since there's no way to get the combat AI to engage at a specific range, I'm not sure how it would work with "optimal firing range" - would it actually try to get in the right range to fire, or would it just close to point blank and not be able to hit anything?

The way the AI closes to point blank is that it moves in to the closest range that it can fire at. So, it will move to range 4 and fire (for a 3 range blind spot). It will not try to fire at range 1-3.

[FMMonty]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
I didn't really mean to steal you from the B5 Mod.

It all depends on how much time you want to put into it, really. Most of the mod is done at this point. It is weapons and images that are what is left. I am fine with you doing as little or as much as you want to do. Here are some ideas:

I want the base weapon firing rate to be 2 instead of 1, to create the possibility of "machine gun" weapons that fire really fast (rate 1), relative to the other weapons.

I was thining of having "heavy" Versions of a lot of weapons that are slower to fire, have bonuses to range, damage, +10 to hit, and the first three range values are 0 damage, to create blind spots. I might also have "medium" weapons that are in between "light" and "heavy" in damage, range, etc., but have no bonus to hit and only the first damage value a 0, for a small blind spot.

Do you think you could come up with plausible weapons for the Organic Races? They need about as many as are in the stock game (could be less, more, whatever; they need a variety available). All of the current weapons (save racials like Temporal) will be Physical Race Only. These would preferably not be copies of the stock weapons with organic names, as that would be really boring (and I plan on replacing a lot of stock weapons with custom ones anyways).

Or if you do not really want to do organic weapons, perhaps you could try to adapt the weapons from this game to SE4: http://www.wizards.com/alternity/files/Warships.pdf for the Physical Races. I am thinking that projectile type weapons will have high damage, but 1/2 or 1/4 dmg to shields (depending on the weapon), and that "laser" weapons will have low damage but 2x or 4x to shields (depending on the weapon). Both Groups would definitely be researchable to the end game, with the idea that you pick if you want your race to specialize in one or the other, or just do average in both areas for less power but more versatility.

Do you have any specific ideas on how Physical, Organic and Magic weapons can be differentiated? Such as general trends that all Physical weapons follow that Organic and Magic ones do not.

If you want to "proofread" stuff, go ahead and post any suggestions/comments you have.

More than happy to do the organics weapons, it sounds like fun

Anyway I need a template for a "standard" weapon to base it off, and also some idea on how the AI will manage battles between ships with melee range weapons and ships with short range blindspots (that could be a potential problem).

The main thing will be a standard weapon idea, so we can see how to balance damage per ton, range, damage per turn (especially important with leaky armour since big rare hits work better) and such like. I would like to create a whole range of weapons that are actually useful, rather than have a couple of lines which are great and all the rest being worthless which is so often the case.

[Fyron]

For damage/kT, keep them at similar levels to the weapons already in the mod in relation to location on the tech tree.

Leaky Armor does not require big hits. Small hits that do not destroy any armor just combine their damage with the next hit, so you get the same effect. It is Leaky Shields where the big hits are more effective than lots of small ones.

[Suicide Junkie]

For very small damage hits, (on the order of half the hitpoints of a single armor/internal component) leaky shields will absorb more than their intended percentage of the damage.

For high damage hits (greater than the crystalline ability or total shield generation amount), then the shields will absorb less than thier intended percentage of the damage.

[General Woundwort]

Submitted for your consideration, two sets of buttons for the Adamant Mod's specialty races...

Magic Main Buttons

Organic Main Buttons

[Fyron]

Those are very cool. Consider them included.

[Fyron]

FMMonty:
Any progress or ideas you want to run by me or anything?

[Ed Kolis]

Since the PBEM test is getting into gear, I thought I'd take a look at the latest Version of Adamant... well looky here, another long list of issues!

Why do magic races get a Temple District? Isn't that religious? Perhaps the facility should be renamed... Also see Altars of Healing, Keepers of the Faith...

Fyron, how did you ever manage to find out all those new racial trait abilities? I've never seen a mod with a racial trait that increases repair rate or minerals storage before...

Isn't it confusing for Magic races to call their Cruisers Frigates when there's a smaller Physical ship size called a Frigate?

Shouldn't ICBM's built-in standard movement ability be displayed in-game?

The organic mercenary ships still have the old names (Bio Destroyer, etc.) and there is a Mercenary Corvette even though there is no hull called a Corvette

The psionic disciplines don't seem to be implemented... I was wondering what Metacreation was but I couldn't find it anywhere except in TechArea.txt and RacialTraits.txt; could you tell us which racial traits aren't implemented so we don't pick them and wonder where stuff is?

"Regeneration" is misspelled in the description of the Inherent Regeneration trait

What's the difference between Riot Gear and Troop Cockpit, other than the fact that Riot Gear can't go on mechanized troops?

Why does the Basic Bridge have 11 hitpoints while the standard bridge only has 10? It's not just a typo, it appears with the Neural Cores and Spelljammer Helms too...

How about if the different crew quarters levels provided maintenance bonuses and penalties? You know, you're more likely to take care of the ship when you're taken care of yourself

How can the Religious Talisman be placed on satellites or drones?

Iron armor is as strong as titanium? What ever happened to magical races getting weak armor and strong shields? Now everything's pretty much the same only you have 3 copies of everything

Emissive Armor III is in the general group Advanced Armor Engineering while the other Emissive Armors are in just plain Armor... and what's with those absurd tech requirements?!? level 60 of Advanced Armor?!?

Why are there cloaking devices for mines if mines get built-in level 10 cloaks?

Point defense weapons don't list their to-hit bonuses (and weren't you one of the ones saying those bonuses were too high? )

The Neutron Cannon (BP) is kind of useless since the Neutron Cannon (SS) will already take out Boarding Parties - since the Boarding Parties have the boarding Defense ability as well as attack!

I have an idea for plague bombs... give them a huge minus to hit, representing the chance of the plague spreading! Maybe even multiple levels of plague bombs with different chances of infection...

[Fyron]

Why do magic races get a Temple District? Isn't that religious? Perhaps the facility should be renamed... Also see Altars of Healing, Keepers of the Faith...

Note that it is Deeply Religious, not Religious. I see nothing wrong with a race that is not Deeply Religious being able to make temples. They are not at all like Shrines, just happiness facilities. Religion played a more prominent role in the medieval ages of Europe than it does today in the US, and that is where the Magic races are sort of set. At least, the historical aspects.

Fyron, how did you ever manage to find out all those new racial trait abilities? I've never seen a mod with a racial trait that increases repair rate or minerals storage before...

They are listed in the Modding 101 Tutorial. I originally saw the abilities in this thread:
http://www.shrapnelgames.com/cgi-bin...=003414#000004

Isn't it confusing for Magic races to call their Cruisers Frigates when there's a smaller Physical ship size called a Frigate?

Frigates were massive ships in the Age of Sail, unlike the modern usage of frigate. As the magic races are set around there somewhere, it made sense to use Frigate (as well as a lot of other medieval and later sail ships). I don't think it will be too confusing, but if it ends up confusing people, I have no idea what else to call the ships.

Shouldn't ICBM's built-in standard movement ability be displayed in-game?

Probably. I never really finsihed them up, just created the basics. They are probably rather unbalanced.

The organic mercenary ships still have the old names (Bio Destroyer, etc.)

Will have to fix that.

and there is a Mercenary Corvette even though there is no hull called a Corvette

Yeah there is. It is available to Physical races, between the Escort and Light Frigate in size and tech req.

The psionic disciplines don't seem to be implemented... I was wondering what Metacreation was but I couldn't find it anywhere except in TechArea.txt and RacialTraits.txt; could you tell us which racial traits aren't implemented so we don't pick them and wonder where stuff is?

I wasn't quite sure what to put in them, and I have loaned my Psionics Handbook (D&D) to a friend, so can't really fill them all up.

"Regeneration" is misspelled in the description of the Inherent Regeneration trait

Oops! I thought I had fixed that months ago.

What's the difference between Riot Gear and Troop Cockpit, other than the fact that Riot Gear can't go on mechanized troops?

Seems I never got around to fleshing out Infantry components.

Why does the Basic Bridge have 11 hitpoints while the standard bridge only has 10? It's not just a typo, it appears with the Neural Cores and Spelljammer Helms too...

It makes it a little more likely that they will be selected to be damaged when the ship is hit, as most internals have 10 hit points. They have 11, and so are more likely to be hit than if they had only 10.

How about if the different crew quarters levels provided maintenance bonuses and penalties? You know, you're more likely to take care of the ship when you're taken care of yourself

Hmm... what bonuses would you suggest?

How can the Religious Talisman be placed on satellites or drones?

It can't at present. If only we could just make our own list of vehicle sizes allowed and such.

Iron armor is as strong as titanium? What ever happened to magical races getting weak armor and strong shields? Now everything's pretty much the same only you have 3 copies of everything

They do have weaker armor. Their armors have 10% fewer hit points than equivalent levels of Physical race armor. You think I should make them even weaker?

Emissive Armor III is in the general group Advanced Armor Engineering while the other Emissive Armors are in just plain Armor... and what's with those absurd tech requirements?!? level 60 of Advanced Armor?!?

Emissive Armor is currently not available in the mod. I added a 0 to the end of their tech req to do this without having to delete them. I am not yet sure what I will do with EA, so I just modded it out.

The group thing is a typo, probably resulting from hasty find-replace methods.

Why are there cloaking devices for mines if mines get built-in level 10 cloaks?

They don't get built in cloaks. Look closely: the number of abilities is set to 0, so they have no built in abilities in-game. I just did not want to delete the ability lines in case I later decided to give them built-in cloaking again.

Point defense weapons don't list their to-hit bonuses (and weren't you one of the ones saying those bonuses were too high? )

Oopsie. I have not yet decided what I am going to do with PDCs. They are currently split into 2 Groups, the ones that target fighters only and the ones that target seekers only. Fighters at least have a lot more hitpoints from armor components, so the PDC might actually need that high bonus to be able to do anything to them.

The Neutron Cannon (BP) is kind of useless since the Neutron Cannon (SS) will already take out Boarding Parties - since the Boarding Parties have the boarding Defense ability as well as attack!

True. They were useful before I added boarding defense to a lot of comps to make them susceptible to Mental Shredders and such. I will remove the Neutron Cannon (BP).

I have an idea for plague bombs... give them a huge minus to hit, representing the chance of the plague spreading! Maybe even multiple levels of plague bombs with different chances of infection...

Interesting... I shall consider this further.