SPMBT Patch Post 2018/2019 Part 3
This I think will be the last
MBT resubmission from that same Thread.
First the depth some of us go to,
too test and or
verify our thoughts,
sources and
concerns. I would like to demonstrate that, as is the case here, for just one MBT. That being Ukraine’s
OPLOT-M. I was seeing in game play a
3:1 kill ratio in favor of the T-72B3M/B4 against the
OPLOT-M. This would be an
incorrect conclusion based on everything we know about these tanks in the end.
From
Page 85 Post 842.
A. Para 1 “I relied on my evaluations from the recent testing done, looked at the feedback I received from others, rechecked old refs and found new ones and checked my conclusions against its peer Russian
T-90A UNIT 050, its main rival
T-72B3M/B4 when I play the against the
AI.”
B. Para 3 “As with the two already listed these next where also used to evaluate my numbers for
STEEL/HEAT/ERA & STABILISER as submitted below. They are (The ones I've
submitted or
changed will have "
*" by the name.)
THAILAND *OPLOT-M (T) UNIT 019, UKRAINE T-84 UNIT 059, RUSSIAN *T-80BMV UNIT 046, SWEDEN *STRV-122A UNIT 358 (This tank was chosen because it is my
firm belief there is no better "
TOP" protected tank in the world. Acted as a check against me as the others did. This came about from tests conducted on their stock of Russian tanks with
STRIX which
proved devastating to them. Also these
LEOPARD tanks were
made to order for
SWEDEN and
NOT stock tanks. The "
STEEL" for the
turret hatch alone was
increased just shy of
2 feet thick which means the
surrounding "TOP" area has to be even thicker as
all hatches are recessed to avoid such issues as
over pressurization etc. no different than on a
Submarine and verified by my co-worker "
JAKE" (Helped us on some
BRADLEY issues we were looking into in the past.) the
ABRAMS/BRADLEY Driver/Gunner extraordinaire. For further see the
FB Patch Thread "Patch Post #2 for the 2013/2014 Campaign"),
USA M1A2 SEP V1 UNIT 318,
M1A1HA+ UNIT 484,
*MIA2 SEP V2 UNIT 517, and
*M1A2 SEP V3".
C. All the Test and Assessment Posts can be found below.
“From the
tests the average
Kill RATIO stands at 3:1 win favoring the
T-72B3M/B4. All the issues have already have been covered with the solutions to help counter the situation and acknowledged.
PG. 82 Posts 813/814/815 (Last Para) and 816.
PG. 83 Posts 824 and 830
PG. 84 Post 832.”
D. To “my” testers, John (
Imp),
Aeraaa,
zovs66 and
jivemi.
I THANK YOU!!
NOW TO BUSINESS...
From
Page 84 Post 837 This was just one of those issues that just
came up out of nowhere…
Well I have an issue I believe, I've sorted out, maybe. It concerns the Russian
T-80 Series. One will be an "
ADD" the other a "
CHANGE" of the "
START" as it's at
least a year early. The issue is that the Russian
T-80B/BV/U tanks received an
upgrade. As the
T-80BV is a real tank and is already in the game, I purpose that the upgraded tank be entered as the
T-80BV1.
NOW THE ABOVE WILL BE
LIMITED TO DATE CHANGES FOR THE FOLLOWING
3 TANKS AFTER
DEEPER RESEARCH AND RE-READING THE ARMY REC. REFS. (THE WORDING WAS A
LITTLE CONFUSING AT FIRST.) (An obvious EDIT "
on the fly" at that time.
2/25/2020.)
CHANGE/RUSSIA/T-80B/UNIT 621/END DATE 12/1992 VICE 12/1985//
All T-80B tanks in service were
upgraded to the
T-80BV until
production ceased on that tank in
1992. I
cannot find any reference to the
existence of the T-80B1/UNITS 622 & 676 as entered in the game of which
I believe are redundant to the T-80B.
DELETE/RUSSIA/T-80B1/UNITS 622 & 676/CANNOT VERIFY THEY EXIST//
As
noted above and as indicated by the refs shown and others in a deeper web search.
http://www.military-today.com/tanks/t80b.htm
CHANGE/RUSSIA/T-80BV/UNIT 039/END DATE 12/2025 VICE 12/1992//
I can't seem to
find anything to say these tanks are
no longer in service. I
fully understand a great many of them are in
storage, but again the refs provided for this tank and others seem to indicate many
are still operational and they are the platform from which the
T-80BVM are derived from. View "
Variants" section of
ref. 1.
Ref. 2 shows Russia still using them
at bottom of ref. "
Users" section.
http://www.military-today.com/tanks/t80b.htm
https://www.armyrecognition.com/russ..._13007173.html
CHANGE/RUSSIA/T-80BVM/UNIT 046/START DATE 10/2018 VICE 06/2017//
Date based on following from
ref. 1 "Russia’s
T-80BV main battle tank has been
upgraded to T-80BVM standard to feature the
capability of firing depleted uranium shells, the
Defense Ministry said in the bulletin ‘
The Russian Army in Comparison’ published on
20 December." Also note
last para from
ref. 1 which addresses some of what I submitted above.
Ref. 2 production begins in
March 2018.
Ref. 3 Dated
02 July 2018, identifies the first units to be
equipped with the T-80BVM.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/dece...um_shells.html
https://www.armyrecognition.com/weap..._t-80_mbt.html
https://www.armyrecognition.com/july...he_arctic.html
Others on the
T-80...
http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/coldwar/USSR/T-80.php
http://id3486.securedata.net/fprado/armorsite/T-80U.htm
(For the above see
production chart on first page.)
THE NEXT IS DONE.
From
Page 85 Post 842
UKRAINE/OPLOT-M/UNIT 064/CHANGE/STEEL/HF 75 vice 72/HR 10 vice 8/TOP 10 vice 7/HEAT/110 vice 104/HS 45 vice 40/TR 20 vice 18/ERA/HF 20 vice 15/HS 18 vice 15/TF 20 vice 15/TS 18 vice 15/TOP 20 vice 15/STABILISER 6 vice 5// My key tanks here where the
T-84,
OPLOT-M (
T),
T-90A,
T-72B3M/B4,
T-80BMV and
STRV-122A. We
know or
should know the following by now, the
T-90A is it's peer tank, the tank was
RESET to the "
-M" with the
Hull strengthened and the
Turret was
newly built for this tank,
ERA is better than the
T-90A and the
KBA3 MG has a
first round hit probability tested to
at least 94%. All this was
born out in the evaluations during
testing from the refs supplied in the posts and more as described above.
THAILAND/OPLOT-M/UNIT 019/CHANGE/NAME/OPLOT-T vice OPLOT-M/STABILISER 4 vice 3/STEEL-HEAT-ERA to match UKRAINE OPLOT-M UNIT 064 AS REVISED ABOVE// Though at the time,
OPLOT-M was primarily used in referring to this tank, I'm assuming to avoid confusion. The refs. are using
OPLOT-T now as has the
THAI Army for some time now. The only difference between these tanks were a small handful of internal issues i.e.
AC (Ukraine would add this feature to based on
THAI feedback to theirs.) and other
tropical related matters. I believe the lesser
FCS related numbers are probably good assuming the
Ukrainians didn't clear them (
And they haven't. 2/25/2020.) to receive the
full FCS to the level of
their own "home" tanks. This is
not an unusual practice in the arms trade. That being said, if it's decided to fully match the hopefully revised Ukrainian OPLOT-M then I see no real issue there either.
(This MBT is fine as already corrected. If I was to
change one thing however, it might be to reduce
VISION TI/GSR 45 vice
50 currently. I leave this to you to decide.
2/25/2020.)
From
Page 85 Posts 844/845
USA/M1A2 SEP V3/UNIT 538/CHANGE/START DATE 06/2020 vice 10/2017/MBT IS CURRENTLY STILL IN FIELD/OP EVAL TESTING// The date currently entered is when the
first six production models came off the line. These would eventually (And more obviously.) and as the refs are showing, went to the
USA units assigned to test it. The significance of the
DID entry I pointed to makes sense as it indicated the
first 45 of these tanks would be completed, I believe it was in March this year. You'll note the rest of the upgrade completion dates go beyond my "
recommended" one above. The test and Prototypes would fill a unit by then or maybe a little earlier. I've already deleted all the refs. before I realized we had a problem here, so you'll have to use my last post and those refs supplied as a start point. Due note the
latest is from the
Army website as are
2 others.
https://www.army.mil/article/172984/...ound_at_a_time https://www.army.mil/article/214733/...proving_ground
https://www.army.mil/article/214733/...proving_ground
From
Page 86 Posts 858/860 (
Note: I have
already edited the original data to reflect the correction made in Post 860* for the
DELETION, to
UNIT 649* vice
UNIT 640. 2/24/2090.)
USA/CHANGE/RESET/M1A2 SEP/UNITS 316 & 647/CHANGE/M1A2 SEP MCRS/UNITS 653 & 654/ALL TO/START OCT 2008/END DEC 2025/TI/GSR 50 vice 40/FC 55 vice 50/STEEL HF 70 vice 65/HS 18 vice 12/HR 10 vice 9/HEAT TF 150 vice 147/TS 50 vice 48// Unlike the
M1A1 FEP, the
M1A2 SEP received a
3rd GEN armor upgrade this includes
a D/U pkg. as well. I "threaded the needle" for
FOC based on the
conflicting data. However it
should be noted it's
NOT out of line based on what I posted concerning the
M1A2 SEP V3 almost being 3 yrs. into its OPEVAL as we speak. Also the last order placed for the
SEP was in mid/late 2005. That being said, I leaned a little more on the following from
DID (Last Ref.) entries
AUG 29/08 and
JUN 20/05. Overall the
SEP program to date must viewed as incremental improvements in all areas. And I really like the picture, things should be seen doing things.
USA/DELETE/M1A2 SEP V1/UNITS 318 & 649*/SAVE THE PICTURE WE HAVE LATE MODEL ABRAMS "FLOATING IN THE SKY" THAT CAN USE IT// For the reasons stated above and below within the Refs. I have seen Refs to indicate the
M1A1 AIM being
tagged with V1 and
V2 attached to the name. Also
M1A1 AIM were all
REMANUFACTED tanks for the record.
USA/CHANGE/M1A2 SEP V2/M1A2 SEP 2-T/UNITS 517 & 537 RESPECTIVLY/FC 55 vice 50/BASED ON M1A2 SEP V3 FC 60/NOTE I MISSED UNIT 537 WHEN I SUBMITTED REVISED START FOR UNIT 517 (06/2020 I BELIEVE FROM POST 845) SHOULD MATCH// Again we see the progression more
clearly now between the variants.
http://www.benning.army.mil/armor/eA...une1996web.pdf
(In
1996 the plan,
pg. 11 and
see Fig. 3 pg. 14.)
http://www.dote.osd.mil/pub/reports/...rmy/99m1a2.pdf
(In
2000 testing issues and
failures experienced
during and
beyond 1999.)
http://www.dote.osd.mil/pub/reports/...amsM1A2SEP.pdf
https://asc.army.mil/docs/pubs/alt/2...est_200101.pdf
(
2001 Another
overview and
analysis.)
(In
2002 testing continues with
minor issues, progress being made.)
https://www.forecastinternational.co...DACH_RECNO=534
(
2003 Commanders CITV. Cap. &
Production Plan.)
https://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/wsh/22.pdf
(2005 Conversion moves on it will be seen
FOC not until Units are in "
PROGRAM STATUS" are
fully equipped.)
https://www.gd.com/news/press-releas...oved-sep-reset
(
2006 Last of
M1 tanks to be
upgraded to SEP expect
2009 final delivery to units for FOC.)
http://id3486.securedata.net/fprado/...ite/abrams.htm
https://www.defenseindustrydaily.com...updated-02834/
(After a
3rd/4th time or more, I've got a
little more clarity on the
date issue (Above
2 Refs in particular.) and I believe the
M1A2 SEP V1 as noted under the
M1A2 SEP V2 section. I'm starting to think what
really happened here with
most not reporting this version while a
SMALL handful do is
the program (
M1A2 SEP V1)
started and went straight into the M1A2 SEP V2 program. It is the
only thing that makes sense here.)
USA/CHANGE PICTURE/M1A2/UNIT 637/REPLACE WITH UNIT 318 PICTURE//I personally enjoyed that when Don let me get all those
USN SKYHAWK pictures replaced mostly in
Australia and
Israel,
F-105 for the
Swiss. Also
helos for
Australia,
Switzerland and
all the countries that used the
French SAR/SPEC OP helo we just updated a year or two ago with the missing MG's. That's
almost relaxing compared to the rest!
From
Page 85 Posts 852/857 (
Only showing the submission from
Post 857. This demonstrates
HOW FAST things can change
based on newer data. 2/24/2020.) Also note I have to use the
M1A2 SEP V2 for
balance against the next two tanks as well. I don't know what data was used for them, however, we had a lot of data to work from for the
M1A2 SEP V2 when it was
submitted and except for the
date change I submitted for the M1A2 SEP V3 that tank looks good at present.
USMC/CHANGE/M1A1HC FEP VARIENTS/UNITS 467, 468 & 469/START 10/2009 vice 01/2008/TI/GSR 50 vice 45/STABILISER 7 vice 6/UNIT 468 MRAP 7 vice SURVIBILITY 6/SAME MBT AS UNITS 467 & 469// The
FEP was a
major upgrade to the
M1A1 tanks the
USMC operated. The contract was awarded on
FEB 05, 2005 for the manufacture and installation of the subsystems making up the
FEP package. The
FOC was reached as submitted above. I
cannot find any information to support any other date but, it should be noted however, I found enough to
change the date when
first submitted in
Post 852 after
digging deeper (
Updated this last sentence for
clarification. 2/25/2020), I will gladly in this instance "
eat a little crow" concerning that last submission that "
I didn't see it before 2010..." at least based on the
data I had then.
https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a608067.pdf
(
Pg. 6/Para B. Note they used
JANE's 2013 ref.))
http://raytheon.mediaroom.com/index.php?item=156
(
Para 4)
http://www.defense-aerospace.com/art...-(dec.-6).html
Paras 1 & 6)
https://www.defenseindustrydaily.com...1-tanks-01874/
(Covers
both programs as of
2006.)
https://www.heritage.org/military-st...s-marine-corps
https://www.heritage.org/military-strength
(
For context only. One of the very few "
think tanks" that grade militaries and
specifically are the only to do so for ours. The second will get you to the other branches.)
https://www.theengineer.co.uk/issues...ets-new-sight/
(This last ties in the
FEP and
SEP programs. And as normal
USA first.)
From
Page 87 Post 862 (
My Pic) and
Post 868 (
Dons edit of my Pic. It’s a beautiful thing!)
USA/CHANGE/M1A2 SEP V2/UNITS 517 & 537/M1A1 AIM/UNIT 636/M1A1 SA/UNIT 886/DELETE CURRENT PICTURES/REPLACE WITH PICTURE AS SUBMITTED BELOW//
REALITY: From changes for the
ABRAMS SEP and looking at the refs, I ended
Post 858 with:
“A final note did
anyone notice a
pattern with the
Refs? Just from what I posted, it was
12 yrs. for SEP to
get into the field. Not bad when you consider
ARJUN Mk I took
over 30yrs. to get there!
These things take time!”
This is why
I’m pessimistically, optimistic about
equipment dates!!
I don’t think I missed anything for the
MBT’S for the
2018 – 2019 Campaign put back here where they should've
started from in the first place.
Don and I have
already addressed for the
2019 - 2020 Campaign the following MBT issues...
Posts 235 – 238 this Thread, covers South Korean
K2 PIP (START Chg.).
T-80ROK UNIT 029 and
BMP-3ROK UNIT 061 both retired last year, I believe we settled on
END DEC 2019.
.
K2 UNIT 032 got a very
INTERESTING ammo change.
Also Ukraine to get an
improved T-64 BULAT 17
And finally I also submitted changes to the
ARJUN Mk-1A for India (Now there's a surprise!!).
All
DONE already by Don these
last three and I think
most from higher above.
Those will be grouped together and submitted to the
MBT Thread at a
later date.
Didn't feel like going back to work today, when a 4 day work week was a better option.
I'm done with MBT's! For now.
Time to
not waste the rest of this "
gift" of being home with you know whom!
Regards,
Pat
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