PBEM game: The first step (Running)

[Shmonk]

Hmm, seems like Marignon is doing really good. He hired Victor's Villains too? Wow! j/k I'm not doing that good.

When I bought Victor and his villains I knew not to expect anything big, at all, but for so cheap I couldn't resist.

And 4 celebs in the HOF? Wonder how that 4th "champion" got in there, with 0 kills no less? Hmmm...

But at least I finally found some gems.

[RibbonBlue]

I feel like im doing pretty good. My only downside I feel is my rate of expanding, I got a good army, a great research, good dominion good income. I feel like im doing pretty good.

Just a question for all you pros. It seems to me the best setup for a GOd is an SC so you can take provinces really fast starting on the first few turns, and latter you can use an army as well.

Using an SC god would allow you to get a jumpstart on your provinces, and allow you to get more provinces then your enemy. Are SC gods a staple of multiplayer games?

[Alneyan]

A SC can serve several purposes, but most can do some fighting early in the game. There are two brands of early-game province-takers: the physical Pretender, relying on protection and brawn, and the magical Pretender, relying on spells for defence. The physical Pretender can start taking provinces on turn 1, while the magical Pretender will need to wait for a few turns to research Alteration 2, and Alteration 3 to safely take more heavily defended provinces.

Some Pretenders will have a harder time fighting however: most notably, the rainbow mage (not uncommon for Ulm), with several paths at low level, and the immobile Pretender (a somewhat common setup for very high levels of magic, useful for powerful bless effects). Rainbow mages *can* take provinces, if you put enough points in the main paths of expansion, but it is quite risky, as the death of a Rainbow mage is a very hard blow (while going from Water 9 to Water 8 is nothing to write home about). If you have the points to spare, you could take a Vampire Queen: with her immortality, she will be much safer and will be able to do some mischief.

[sushiboat]

Here are a few topics that might help with Pretender designs for early expansion:

• 10 Turn Challenge!
• help please with pretender SC's for early expansion
• Looking for help with SC pretenders

[Shmonk]

Thanks for the links, sushiboat. They should help (in my next game, of course).

[RibbonBlue]

But, is it important to get a jumpstart on takeing provinces? Or is it okay to start taking provinces on indie 9 from turns 5+ and a province a turn/2 turns? Or is it really import to expand fast?

[The Panther]

And the answer is: It depends!

If you can scout and establish a peaceful border with a neighbor or two, you can expand at your leisure to the edges of your agreed border. Sometimes, it can be easy to establish a peaceful boundary equal to the current dominion ownership, as that usually spreads radially out in all directions from your home until you meet an enemy dominion.

If you expand too fast, your neighbors can become alarmed and gang up on you. This happens a lot, actually, for it is easy to form a temporary alliance with several people for the sole purpose of knocking down the leader. It is often problematic to be first in too many stats, especially provinces. The army size graph tends to be mostly useless because it counts a Van or High Seraph as the exact same thing as it does a wimpy soulless.

If you are a nation that does not need much gold income but relies on spells and summons (like Pangaea CW), then site searching in your owned provinces can often be more important than expanding rapidly.

If you expand too slowly, your neighbors will think you weak and might gang up to carve out your lands among themselves. Or a more powerful neighbor may simply try to assimilate your territory if you are deemed too small.

On the typical level 9 indy setting, you are usually fine to wait until Turn 5 before expanding. After that, you want to take around 2 provinces every 3 turns to stay abreast of the world. But there will always be those nations who took an SC Pretender and out-expand you if you do this.

Ultimately, the key to any strategy is scouting plus diplomacy. You MUST know where your nearest neighbors are located and which direction they are expanding. You also want to know who is on the other sides of your nearest neighbors so you know whom to ask to join your side in war when it comes to that.

Every time I take a neutral province, I look to see if a scout can be recruited there. When I find one, I pump out at least half a dozen of those guys and send them on their way.

You never want to be totally isolationist and suddenly see that 3 nations are attacking you on the exact same turn from 3 different directions!

One thing to keep in mind is that taking a province adjacent to an enemy capitol is nearly always considered a hostile act of war, so you darn sure better know where your neighbors capitols are located.

[Ironhawk]

shmonk said:
When I bought Victor and his villains I knew not to expect anything big, at all, but for so cheap I couldn't resist.

Victor is actually a very potent merc when used correctly. Keep in mind that him and his whole crew are stealthy so they can sneak into enemy territory and snoop around until they find a weak/important province and then attack it. Then immediately Sneak away into the forests or whatnot before (even insta-response magical teams) can attack them. This tactic is *particularly powerful* against nations with crappy PD, like Man and Machaka, both of whom are playing in this game, I believe.

And 4 celebs in the HOF? Wonder how that 4th "champion" got in there, with 0 kills no less? Hmmm...

The HOF is organized based on experience, not kills. It just looks like Kills, usually, because kills give you lots of experience. On a side note, I believe dying makes you lose exp (for immortals or pretenders?).

So, you can have cases where a unit can be in the HOF but have no kills. For example I played one game where my starting commander survived to turn 50 or so and participated in a great many battles but always to just cast Fanaticism, so he was about 1/3 - 1/2 way up the HOF just on experience.

[Ironhawk]

RibbonBlue said:
Just a question for all you pros. It seems to me the best setup for a GOd is an SC so you can take provinces really fast starting on the first few turns, and latter you can use an army as well.

Using an SC god would allow you to get a jumpstart on your provinces, and allow you to get more provinces then your enemy. Are SC gods a staple of multiplayer games?

As panther said, it depends. My advice is just that you have to look at the conditions of the game and choose what is best for you.

Is the map small, where you are likely to fight early and every province will be life or death for you empire? If so, you probably want a hardcore fighting SC.

Is the game larger/sparsely populated that fighting other players can be delayed? Then you may want to trade off early pretender power for a Mage type to site-search and for a platform to cast the mega late-game spells of your choosing.

Is your nation very powerful militarily, such that you can rely on your armies alone for initial expansion? Then maybe you can go with a Mage or perhaps a Titan or one of the other half-and-half pretenders.

[The Panther]

Ironhawk said:
The HOF is organized based on experience, not kills. It just looks like Kills, usually, because kills give you lots of experience. On a side note, I believe dying makes you lose exp (for immortals or pretenders?).

My son and I once figured this out. Your HoF position is approximately:
Experience + Kills*2 + Deaths*7

You actually move UP in the HoF for dying, which can happen often on immortal pretenders.

Somebody ought to check in this game to see if this formula holds exactly or just approximately.