Will Vanheim Ever Become Spayed?

[Reverend Zombie]

DrPraetorious said:
My preference would still be to add some useful anti-van spells at lower levels, rather than nerfing vans. Given that folklore is chock full anti-faery magic procedures - as many as there are to use against demons - I think there should be some in-game, and that requires a "Fae" designator. These could be national spells or not, I give some examples below but I'm hardly a folklorist.

How about making them magical beings? That's already in the game. Not sure if the Mbeing counters are low enough in the research tree, however.

[Graeme Dice]

Kristoffer O said:
There will probably be some kind of change, but initially rather minor, like the oni cost change.

I think that a gold or resource cost change is probably all that is necessary.

[Epaminondas]

Graeme Dice said:

I think that a gold or resource cost change is probably all that is necessary.

I agree with you.

[Epaminondas]

Corwin said:
Why don't we all cool down a bit?

Gandalf has been very valuable member of Dom community for as long as I remember, which goes back to Dom2 beta days. (when I was actively lurking on this forum) Yes, sometimes he takes position that I personally think is incorrect, which sometimes may correspond with original dev visions. Like in this case of Helheim/Vanheim issue. But this is understandable, since he was part of this vision and had certain influence on it. However calling all his posts worthless is totally uncalled for - he contributed a lot to the Dom community.

I don't want to endless clarify and restate my position because 1) it is tiresome, and 2) it detracts from the thread.

But the continued misrepresentation of what I said by Gandalf's fanboys leaves me no choice.

Please note that I did not say "all his posts" are "worthless." I endeavor to be precise in my language, even on game forums.

What I did say instead is that Gandalf's posts are "worthless" when it comes to "threads of this nature": that is, threads where national or unit imbalances or comparisons are discussed.

Again, as a long-time lurker, I appreciate that Gandalf has made many invaluable contributions to this community, and I have even learned much from some of his posts. Moreover, he seems to be one of the nicer guys on this forum: witness the equanimity with which he takes some of these sharp criticisms in stride.

Nonetheless, all that cannot immunize you from criticism if you say something utterly devoid of persuasive force.

[Gandalf Parker]

Your position is fine. And Im not very good at specific comparions where people break it down into specific numbers.

I only wade in when a thread starts to paint such a bleak picture that it might scare off newbies reading here, or worse someone who has yet to purchase the game. I think its misleading to call such catastrophic results when it affects only a portion of the player base. In this case it appears to be MP on small blitz maps with no victory conditions.

[alexti]

Kristoffer O said:
Vanir are not fae, they are gods. They invented iron forging and eat salted pork.

How about adding couple of spells:
1) N2 Ench (let's say 2): "Arrows to poisoned salted pork chops"? Affects all friendly troops. All fired missiles become poisoned salted pork chops and deal no damage. If eaten considered a weak poison.
2) Another Ench-2: "Hunger" (battlefield), AOE, "all affected units suddenly becomes hungry".

[BigJMoney]

Increasing Vanir price will probably do the trick by making them harder to amass from the start. I still prefer the thematic repurcussions of taking away their sacred, but I can understand if that doesn't change.

The question is, do you increase gold cost, resources cost, or both?

=$=

[Gandalf Parker]

Im not sure if Kristoffer just raises resource costs. I think he has kindof a formula for that based on the armor and weapons. So probably gold is the thing that can be most flexible.

[calmon]

My solution would cost some coding time:

Gold/Resources don't change, but each sacred glamour unit costs 1 additional Air Gem to build up.

You've something to invest at the start and can't build up as much units. Later you can spend your air gems for a bigger sacred glamour army.

That would give Vanheim/Helheim something special and if you don't play a bless tactic you can use your other non-sacred glamour units (without gem costs).

2-3 Air gems/turn should be provided to vanheim/helheim in each era.

[Teraswaerto]

It seems that mounted Vans don't have the barding resource cost that most mounted units have. Helhirdings are lightly armored, protection 11. It's kind of strange that units that do have barding receive no benefit from it.