Babylon 5 Mod - Page 276

Suicide Junkie · #**2751** January 28th, 2003, 04:10 PM

Quote:

On weapons: SOMETHING has to be, just not sure what. 2 things (may be incompatible ??)...Ancient weapons SHOULD be suprior to the mid and younger races; HOWEVER, there should be counters available to the mid and younger races....

Hrm. Really?
I thought the only counter to overwhelming tech was overwhelming numbers/firepower, or sneaky tactics?

Eg carrier group or battlestation vs one shadow battlecrab.
Eg Sheridan's nuclear mines

grumbler · #**2752** January 28th, 2003, 10:15 PM

SJ: Yes, I agree that the younger races should find it difficult to take out the Ancients, but the way things are now writtent the Shadows and Vorlons simply have too great an ability AT THE START OF THE GAME. In the game I am currentluy playing to test EA stuff, the Vorlons have kept the Centauri to one planet for 200 turns, using 5 ships total. the Centauri started two systems away from the Vorlons and they have been at war since turn 10 or so. Even Centauri cruisers are getting whacked by Vorlon escorts.

I think the secret to making the Ancients "unbeatable" may be in making their planetary defenses much better, even early, and their ships not quite so effective. In fact, just by changing the shadow weapons to fire once per two turns, the battle outcomes become more like what we want. The EA just finally managed to keep the Shadows from taking a planet (after they had burned off 3 others, never even attempting an invasion) by closing in to short range with half the fleet (armed with particles cannons) and standing off with half lobbing in shells. The losses were almost 2-1 in favor of the shadows, and the strength ratio about 2-1 in favor of the EA.

The problem with the shadows is that they kill a ship per turn, pretty much, even when they are small ships. Plus, with their edge in required tonnage and better engines, they have lots more room for armor, and are tougher to boot. Having a Shadow vessel be worth twice the value of a younger races ship is fine, but the shadows are too tough early on. They distort the game by whom they are placed near.

PF: I am now setting up some scenarios where I will just fight similar ships with minor differences in the "simulator" to see if some empirical rules are exposed. maybe that will give us some places to start.

TS: I like the idea of just getting the weapons for each race listed. Certainly, if there are obviously inferior weapons that no one will use because there are better options available, then we can get rid of them or at least restrict them so the AI doesn't have to sort through them.

Is it possible to get this weapoins spreadsheet that people are discussing? IF, did I understand that you had one?

AGoetz · #**2753** January 29th, 2003, 12:40 AM

Regarding number of weapons for each race.
Will there be the standard weapons (ie Particle Weapons) and Advanced Weapons (ie Advanced Particle Weapons)?
Will all races have a Ballistic option? (Don't think the Minbari (for example) currently do, while the Narn are Missile heavy).
Not all races have Mega and Ultra class weapons currently - do you plan on giving those races one?
Will the same range of capabilites be there (ie the Narns two main long range seekers, the stronger targets ships only, the other can target fighters and sattelites as well)

pathfinder · #**2754** January 29th, 2003, 02:03 AM

SJ: My question is how on Earth (or outer space) does one, within the SEIV system, program an AI to mass or be sneaky as you suggest? I am not one whit concerned about human players at all other than wringing the best out of the AI players.

pathfinder · #**2755** January 29th, 2003, 02:47 AM

All, Question: Do you folks want the data/quadrant file to stay as is or to add the Gold quadrants? That is the only thing keeping from posting the Version I have. Reluctant to post it though since weapons are "broke".

Also, I would prefer to bow out of overall AI stuff and concentrate on one race....don't care which one except it would have to be a standard race (no ancients or nomads for me!). Which one ???

grumbler · #**2756** January 29th, 2003, 04:20 AM

PF: if you are in a "trimming" mood, I would suggest the EA. they have way too many specialized missiles and seemingly redundent PDF weapons, IMO.

If you are looking to build new stuff, then one of the more powerful LNAW races (like the Drazhi) would be a good place to go, as we need more "empire-capable" races. A "shadow-based" race like the Drakh might be fun, too.

Suicide Junkie · #**2757** January 29th, 2003, 06:06 AM

Quote:

SJ: My question is how on Earth (or outer space) does one, within the SEIV system, program an AI to mass or be sneaky as you suggest? I am not one whit concerned about human players at all other than wringing the best out of the AI players.

Well, certainly sneakiness is for humans only.

I believe the mod was set up such that the ancient races didn't get to do any colonization, thus limiting their forces to smaller numbers automatically.

The AI should be told to use huge numbers of ships per fleet if it is a young race, and much less for an ancient one...
The ancient one will have less ships total, so they should need smaller fleets in order to have enough to go around and cover their borders anyways.

Does that make any sense with respect to the AI files?

pathfinder · #**2758** January 29th, 2003, 06:15 AM

SJ: I guess so. I'll look at the files..

and actually one can set up the research files so the Ancients can colonize....I'll re-set their research so they can't colonize...even if they can, it is terribly expensive and takes a long time for them to build anything..

[ January 29, 2003, 04:17: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

Fyron · #**2759** January 29th, 2003, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Is it possible to get this weapoins spreadsheet that people are discussing? IF, did I understand that you had one?

I do have a Version of it, but I think it is an old Version. It may not have everything in it.

grumbler · #**2760** January 30th, 2003, 07:03 PM

AGoetz,

My 2 cents on your questions:

1. Regarding number of weapons for each race.
Will there be the standard weapons (ie Particle Weapons) and Advanced Weapons (ie Advanced Particle Weapons)?
- I think there should be a common set of weapons at the basic elevl 9with differences for the races, but a fairly common research path) but that not everyone should get advanced weapons in every Category. The AW is an area where we can distinguish between races.

2. Will all races have a Ballistic option? (Don't think the Minbari (for example) currently do, while the Narn are Missile heavy).
- I don't think we need to have all races have capabilities in all areas, so long as they have equivelents. I am somewhat concerned about the play balance of having virtually every Narn weapon be vulnerable to PD weapons, but that is something playtesting can iron out.

3. Not all races have Mega and Ultra class weapons currently - do you plan on giving those races one?
- I think all the races will need these.

4. Will the same range of capabilites be there (ie the Narns two main long range seekers, the stronger targets ships only, the other can target fighters and sattelites as well).

- the specific limits on weapons can make the game kind of fun (the EA fighter missiles, for instance, are either good against ftr/seeker OR ships, requiring the EA to have two types of fighters, which is okay as it makes them different). Again, playtesting is the way to balance these out.