Capturing Capitols

[thejeff]

Hmmm, sacred mages become even more desirable. You're less of a target since an enemy won't profit as much.
Imagine Ulm suddenly getting access to Pans or Mystics. That'd change the game, and the nature of the nation drastically.

It would be interesting to try out as a mod, but I wouldn't want to see it in the base game.

Maybe just troops. That could be interesting. Add a little variety without a major power boost.

[Humakty]

For my part, in SP I find Capitols somewhat attractive :
It often allows me to diversify my magic a lot, even if it is not often worthy enougth to make an assault.Some over bonuses would be welcomed, so as to incite people not to just sit before the walls and watch them die from diseases.( as an assault is difficult because of the many mages that often stay in a capitol)

[vfb]

I'm getting more enjoyment out of SP now that I've stopped trying to get more variety and diversity. It makes each nation more unique. I refuse to hire mercs now for the same reason, the early game can just turn into the same cost+5 merc-fest, whatever nation I'm playing (unless I'm in the water). But, it wouldn't hurt any to have the proposed Capitol option added, I suppose -- I'd just have to resist the temptation to hire the available units.

[Tuidjy]

> I have never come back after a capitol loss anyway.

I have come back from two capitol losses in a MP
game and actually won that one (in an alliance)
If your teleporting SCs are caught in a province
without a lab, a determinate enemy can take your
capitol in two turns and there is not much you can
do about it, especially if you have sent your
mages to the front lines.

In addition, in my last game, I gave a capitol back
to the original owner as the price of peace. There
was another nation that needed killing.

I am not opposed to 'looting' capitols, but please
be aware, that will change the gameplay A LOT.

[Digress]

Meglobob said:

However, how about somewhere slightly inbetween, when you conquer another races capital, you have a 1 in 3 chance of being able to recruit that races national troop types/leaders. This always excludes that races sacreds.

So for example, I conquer MA Agarthas capital, a one off check then occurs for MA Agarthas national troops as follows:-

Agarthan scout 1 in 3 chance of still being recruitable.
Cave captain 1 in 3 chance of still being recruitable.
Pale one Captain 1 in 3 chance of still being recruitable.
Agarthan light infantry 1 in 3 chance of still being recruitable.
Agarthan infantry 1 in 3 chance of still being recruitable.
Argathan heavy infantry 1 in 3 chance of still being recruitable.
Pale one soldier 1 in 3 chance of still being recruitable.

Ancient one, attendant of oracles, earth reader, golem crafter, ancient lord and oracle of ancients are all sacred so can never be reruitable by another nation. Those units are dedicated to Agartha and there god only.

Should Agartha reconquer his capital all units are recruitable as normal. But should any other nation conquer it after, the original units who made the 1 in 3 are recruitable, another check is not made.

I believe this would stop all nations morphing into one problem but make capitals more tempting targets with a greater reward for the conquerer. It would also open up more tactics/strategies up for individual nations later in the game.

It would also reflect the nation being enslaved/conquered/ruled by the host nation. Its very unrealistic at the moment that a nations entire conquered population refuse to serve there conquerer. The Roman Empire for example had its armies made up more of auxilleries from conquered nations than soldiers from Rome/Italy.

I think this might well be a good idea - but should probably include a dominion effect - you should have to displace the conquered nations dominion and replace it with your own before you can incorporate the conquered nations national troops into your army. Maybe even have the requirement that the nation that has lost the capitol be completely destroyed before the "faithful" are willing to be recruits in the army of their conquerer.

I also think there should be some sort of random event in captured capitols representing the oppressed nation attempting to rise once again - maybe even with a low power AI controlled pretender leading the rebellion (this would only occur should the orignal pretender have been completely defeated).

[hnchrist3]

Think of what you are saying:

[hnchrist3]

Think of what you are saying:
"I want a nations specific loyalists, to be loyal to me."

No. They ONLY serve their nation.
Think of it, if one (or more) random nationalist(s) were to stray into a Capitol you conquered, not only would you kill them all, you wouldn't even THINK of asking them to join you.
{Postscriptum: they would not.}

Be content with having all their gem sites.

[Digress]

I am not suggesting its a big deal.

But I still think there is some merit in the idea - I think sacred units certainly shouldn't be recruitable as they are the hard core loyalists but the remaining population should be able to yield recruits that reflect the nature of the newly conquered population.

[atul]

I think the main beef people have with conquered capitols is that it seems silly there suddenly is no mark of previous population at all. Quite genocidal, these religious wars.

On way to make capitols 'remember' what they were while not getting overpowered would be to switch the indy poptype of capital city to correspond the nation. Like, conquer C'tis and you get the indy lizards, i.e. Lizard Warrior and Shamen; conquer Machaka and there are Lion Tribals; with Man a Knight province; Marverni yields some tribals; Sauromatia those water amazons; Ape nation gets the markata indy troops.

Many of the corresponding indy - nation pairs are already there, and you can find them anyway if you're lucky. This would represent conquered capitols yielding new kind of troops, but who don't benefit from the culture of past.

[Tuidjy]

I love Atul's idea.