LA Pangea - a rotten way to go green

[Kobal2]

Originally Posted by swapoer

Using so many nature gems to cast a GE which need a long time to take effect and will easily be dispelled make it a choice very unappealing.

I don't really follow that reasoning.

The fact that it takes a long time to pay out means it's better to cast it sooner rather than later, no ? Plus, the earlier you cast it, the less chance someone out there has Ench 5 researched and a pile of S gems with your name on it.

[thejeff]

On the other hand, it may be best from the enemy's point of view to leave it up for awhile to destroy your income, then take it out to fight you.

The real problem with it is, it only gives you stuff (gems, troops) while you can keep it up. What it takes from you in income, you never get back.

[Kobal2]

Hopefully by then you've used these gems and troops to spam mentors and seize someone else's income respectively.

It's essentially the same gambit as bloodhunting at 100% taxes with patrols or tanking your scales for a ridiculous bless : you're basically killing your long term self for more immediate power.

Either it works and you end up with a much more powerful position than you could ever have by playing more conservatively (and immediately get dogpiled), or it fizzles out and you end up super dead.
Either way, it's quick .

[Jarkko]

Originally Posted by Kobal2

Hopefully by then you've used these gems and troops to spam mentors and seize someone else's income respectively.

It's essentially the same gambit as bloodhunting at 100% taxes with patrols or tanking your scales for a ridiculous bless : you're basically killing your long term self for more immediate power.

Either it works and you end up with a much more powerful position than you could ever have by playing more conservatively (and immediately get dogpiled), or it fizzles out and you end up super dead.
Either way, it's quick .

At 90 gems it is not quick for LA Pangaea. At 90 nature gems it is retarded for LA Pan; just because it is equally retarded in vanilla game doesn't make it less retarded in CBM

At 50 gems it was too good for EA and MA Pans. For LA Pan I didn't get it up even at that price, much better to get Mother Oak up and use Carrion commanders to summon the troops. As LA Pan you desperately *need* gold income, the same gold income CW destroys.

If you use 50 nature gems to get Mother Oak up and spend 40 gems to summon carrion commanders, you will end up with more gems than CW, an economy that is not ruined *and* practically same number of carrion troops because the commanders will start reanimating ~20 turns earlier than you'd get CW up (altough with reanimating you just better manikins; you'll be reanimating the carrions in forest temples, so you will get a much better ratio of the good ones). Of course Mother Oak is one of those spells somebody else wants too, so it would make sense even to use all those 90 nature gems on carrion commanders.

I guess you can blame me for the heavy nerf CW saw in CBM1.7 (and still in CBM1.8). I was QM's neighbour in a MP game, and I took massive advantage of CW. That was MA, and CW deserved to be nerfed in MA EA. Sadly EA and MA Pangaea still can (ab)use CW (just not so ridiculously easily), but LA Pangaea got absolutely screwed.

[swapoer]

Originally Posted by Kobal2

I don't really follow that reasoning.

The fact that it takes a long time to pay out means it's better to cast it sooner rather than later, no ? Plus, the earlier you cast it, the less chance someone out there has Ench 5 researched and a pile of S gems with your name on it.

The problem is that you can't cast it quickly.The cost of 90 gems make the CW more later in game.So it became much less appealing.

[Fantomen]

Why not lower the price again and make it exclusive for LA Pan?

It makes no sense to me that EA and MA has it at all.

[swapoer]

LA has a lower site frequence.So it is a good idea to lower the price.

[Jarkko]

Originally Posted by swapoer

LA has a lower site frequence.So it is a good idea to lower the price.

And even with no sites found EA and MA Pans generate more nature gems. Add to that that EA and MA Pans go the turmoil-luck way (while LA Pan requires an order scale) and thus have many more gems from events.

[llamabeast]

What do people think the ideal solution would be?

I'd suggest something like:
EA & MA Pan: Cost 90 gems, research level 6
LA Pan: Cost 50 gems, research level 0

If this seems like a good solution I can code it up and submit the change to qm, on the off-chance that he likes it.

[llamabeast]

The alternative would be making it exclusive to LA Pan, but does this represent and undesirable loss of options for the earlier Pans? Maybe it is fun that they *can* cast it, even if it's difficult for them.