Pike vs Cavalry

[Wrana]

There was an idea somewhere that pikemen could be represented by block units: i.e., 1 model representing, say, 4 pikemen and having Size 3, with #secondshape representing losses (3 pikemen unit having size 3 and 1-2 size 2). This would both protect them somewhat from tramplers and allow higher concentration of attacks against individual opponents (of any size). (this started as making individual pikemen Size 1 for better concentration, but vulnerability for tramplers was considered too great in such variant).
Another idea was to give them animal awe and make all cavalry of animal type (penalty they would get for sieges are thematic, but there is possible weirdness with some spell effects).

[Lingchih]

OMG. Not another post in the realm of the longbow vs. crossbow vein. Please let it end.

I'm sorry. Really, I am sorry.

[Endoperez]

Originally Posted by Trumanator

Meh, from what I've read on the forums people don't use the average giant troops much, except maybe the Fomorians. Niefels don't much care if you've got a pike, and even if they get repelled the cold aura is what matters. Skinshifters I don't know that much about, but don't they also have good morale and att? Same for Woodsman, morale is not an issue. Against giant PD Pikes are probably good, but so is most anything.

Early age isn't the only era with giants. Jotunheim in Middle and Late doesn't have Niefels, Ashdod will use giant troops a lot as well, and there are some size 3 units with a single attack and no trample that pikes work against. Well, at least I think so: Pale Ones of Agartha aren't used much above water, Minotaurs trample, size 3 Abysians have high prot and often dual-wield, Caelians lose in melee any way... Perhaps Shamblers or Cave Men or other easily massable independent big hitters.

[Humakty]

It's extremey strange not to be able to repel tramplers : are elephants or minotaurs magically immune to pointy stuffs they crash on?

[Sombre]

Changing repel to work vs tramplers would necessitate a LOT of other changes to avoid wrecking the balance of the game.

[Aezeal]

Since trample by it's nature would be lenght 0.. It could always be repelled. (unless the unit has an AWESOME PRESENCE (tm) like me then you can trample pplz 10 feet away )

btw you can also repel with blunt weapons

[JimMorrison]

Originally Posted by Sombre

Changing repel to work vs tramplers would necessitate a LOT of other changes to avoid wrecking the balance of the game.

Hmmmm. I think if Trample were subject to Repel, it would mostly be a matter of increasing Morale for Trampling units. Yes, it negates the major disadvantage of elephants, for example, but since being subject to a Repel check causes damage, you will still have to carry significant numbers, or they will just chew themselves to pieces on the pikes.

[Ironhawk]

Originally Posted by Trumanator

Meh, from what I've read on the forums people don't use the average giant troops much, except maybe the Fomorians.

Not true. Don't knock Pikes vs. Giants until you've tried it.

[Trumanator]

Well, I took Dedas' advice regarding the pikeman. I started a game as MA Ulm, and have been building them almost exclusively. I suppose I'm something of a convert now, at least when it comes to fighting indies. I was very surprised at the lack of attrition against archers, even with the chainmail pikes. The black plate pikes are just as invulnerable as all of Ulm's troops. The 2 extra HPs on all of Ulm's infantry also helps. I will say though that I would be somewhat more cautious with them in LA when crossbow indies are so much more prevalent.

[Dedas]

I'm glad you tried it, Trumanator! I myself think that learning new things about this wonderful game is a whole level of fun just by itself. So maybe we will meet on the field of battle some day and become even wiser?