Wishlist: High level design thoughts

[Imp]

Originally Posted by vanbeke

As to EdKolis' tech tree uncertanty - The only way that I could see this as being important is if it changes with each game. Otherwise, after the first play, we will know what is required to get the next discovery (whether they are called levels or not, it appears to come to the same result).

I think it would be cool to have a tech tree that is different each time we play - some races find certain discoveries easier than others in the play of a game. Might make for interesting tech trading or espionage opportunites.

There was a paper and pencil game back in the 70s or 80s that had a randomization factor in the results. Sometimes you would get a specific tech for your efforts, and sometimes you get the shaft.

While I agree it still leaves a tech tree you know at least early game it makes the choices more dependant on the current situation. Go for the quick fix upgrade route or take the more cost effective probably next tech leap.

I agree everybody should be able to research a techs basics but the further along you go the more chance it should have to diversify or just plain fail like real life. Gave some ways to diversify the tech tree before stoping the boredom of same old tactics.
Tech trading & certainly pilfering could have 2 levels, learn the tech or get a boost in time & success for reverse engineering when you get your mitts on one. Getting your hands on a tech way in advance of where you are there should be a good chance you cant figure it out till further along even if you got the plans. Building a car would be a chalenge if you just invented the wheel after all we havent figured out the anti gravity drive from the Roswell crash yet

[jRides]

I would love the option to scale up into huge arenas - I do like the longer games too.

I would love to see some sort of leader system. Not like MOO2, more like Hearts of Iron.

Basically just a database of names and they are assigned to every division built, every ship etc. Each leader has some form of Skill, experience and Rank. Same as ship experience each captain can gain until he reaches next level(skill increase) or if you chose to promote him, trade it in for Rank (Higher Rank means they can control more units, Captain controls 1 ship, whereas an admiral can control 30 ships for example, exceeding it would be detrimental).

The Skill could be used for a combat modifier (especially in autoresolving). On creating fleets and auto-assigning available personnel, it may be worth promoting an experienced captain, maybe I have a favourite heh. I think this adds very much to flavour, we can leave it to do its own thing but we can delve into it to tinker with some of the whos-who in your army/navy.

Furthermore, possibilities of extending this go into news/flavour reports naming the individuals, or events - for example royalty of your empire joining the navy forcing you to not needlessly expend that fleet in your next foolish venture. If you have a leader Rank = maximum number of ships controlled value then tech options to expand this number become a bit more desirable (ship datalink/neural links techs etc). Surrender may require you to hand over specific admirals etc etc

..maybe getting a wee bit too much now for something already in production but the base idea alone would add some nice flavour.

[Gregstrom]

Do you mean scaling up as in Spore? That sounded like a really interesting idea, but I never actually played the game.

[jRides]

If it was my comment your referring to Gregstrom, I was thinking more along the lines of having the option to play on a huge map, or a wee map.

But then a couple days ago I stumbled across Aurora, and i'm blown away by just how amazingly detailed it is. It been described as the Dwarf Fortress of 4x and its true i'm loving it so far. Its incredibly difficult to get to grips with but persevering is paying off, if you haven't heard of it then i highly suggest you take a look.

In Aurora it seems you can scale up the map as you go along, spawn new enemies and increase the map size on the go. It seems to work well with that and its an option i hadn't really considered myself.

I think that to have scaling up you would be better off in a SE/Starfire/Aurora method of space travel - systems linked by warp points and all interstellar travel is via these, I'm not sure if this is the road your taking (or something along the lines of lost empires/Distant worlds that simulates the entire galaxy and you travel by more conventional means, you see all the stars at the start and you can get there (eventually).

I'd prefer the SE way tbh, also id prefer that we don't get to see what links where and all the systems laid out on the map at the start etc - adds to the sense of exploration - I could go on but probably it's better in a seperate post).

Banging on again about the officers post I made above, Aurora also has a well developed officer system (very much as I suggested above, only with the additions of traits and bonuses, also Officer roles for civilian, army, navy and special project teams (not quite sure what they do yet).

The thing that stands out the most tho is your promoting or watching getting promoted) officers and governers of your own race, unlike the very similar moo system where its a mash of weird races turning up on your doorstep offering their services (its so deep he even has a political system in there to simulate useless officers with good political contacts getting promoted above better officers without the political clout).

[dumbluck]

Ah, Aurora. Have you tried uninstalling it yet? Here's a hint: you can't. At least, not by any method _I_ can find...

[Imp]

Originally Posted by dumbluck

Ah, Aurora. Have you tried uninstalling it yet? Here's a hint: you can't. At least, not by any method _I_ can find...

Off topic but do you mean install data got corrupted so it does not show up in control panel programes & features?

If so & you have an aftermarket program to keep your system running efficently try it they are often better than what comes as standard. Try cleaning the registery first if it does not show.

Otherwise do the following
1) Use a registery cleaner CCleaner is quick & free so download & clean the registry.
2) Use windows explorer or whatever you use & navigate to the folder you installed it in, delete it & all its contents.
Check first if it looks like it saves games in there if not or unsure also go to the following & check for.
C:\Users\Default\Saved Game & the same for your user name i.e.
C:\Users\USER NAME(S)\Saved Game
3) Delete any shortcuts to in start menu or icon on your desktop.
4) Now clean the registry again.

Note when you clean the registry always keep doing till it finds nothing clearing stuff on the first pass often uncovers more errors.

Thats it there might be a couple of librays left on your system but no need to worry.
Whenever you uninstall anything you should always at the minimum check its folder & shortcuts are gone & then clean the registry most stuff does not uninstall fully.

[Xrati]

That's the best way to do it Imp!
Some Virus programs come with an uninstaller too! You can try using that.

[Gregstrom]

Is trolling really necessary?

[jRides]

As for flavor text, that really depends on how much time we have to write that stuff!

Why don't you ask the community Ed? Set up a few posts, cherry pick the ones that suit? I'm sure you'll get a few responses.

[Cosian]

While making it open and moddable goes without saying, I would caution against releasing something largely dependent on the mod community to 'finish the project'. I beta tested Star Rulers recently...a lot of really cool stuff under the hood including some of the things others are talking about here .....like ship design of any size along with some other novel ideas. However, the game just didn't feel complete to me and since I am not a modder, I never purchased it.

The concept of the huge universe versus increased detail at the solar system level really makes no difference to me. At the end of the day you will be trying to strike the right level of 'things to control' and 'things to manage'. In my mind what is important is how the user manages the empire ... whatever that may consist of. So many games seem to fail on this point, while the kings of the genre have done a good job in this area. Though not perfect, Gal Civ2 and Sword of The Stars have done a good job in this area. An out of genre example of a decent management interface is Dominions 3. Star Rulers provides a rich and detailed empire...it simply forgot to code a good interface.. I think this is an important point because if its difficult to get to where you need to be issue builds, orders, etc... you lose potential market right up front no matter how cool things are 'under the hood'.

On Tech, I like the idea of RP and EP. It's along the lines of what Hearts of Iron 3 did with it practical knowledge versus theoretical knowledge. It makes sense. That coupled with a somewhat randomized tech tree works for me. I liked what Sword of the Stars did. Here you have all races being able to research basic tech, but as you go up a particular tree you have a percentage chance of being able to research the next item in the tree....each races percentage chance is different. So Race 1 may have a 90% chance of getting the next level in a tree, while race 2 may only have a 40% chance. So though you have a general path that works better for your race, each game is different because you might not get that whiz bang tech you depend on. I also like the idea of a series of techs that are outside a standard tree but may discovered randomly under certain conditions...kind of an unplanned breakthrough.

On combat .... I am torn. Regardless of which way you go, it has got be physics based combat where ship components, placement, and overall design become meaningful. I like the concept of Gratuitous Space Battles where you setup AI and the fleets fight it out, but it might not work well for a large scale empire game where you have tons of fleets to manage. Unless....interfaces for putting together AI 'scripts' and attaching them to ships and fleets was easy. Barring that, the turn based strategy and real time combat of Sword of the Stars is a winner in my book.

On ship design .... I love it and look for this to be a well thought out and unique experience that results in lots of meaningful variation.

While I would like to see the emphasis on ship building and combat, you might give some thought to have some rare strategic resources that are only found in certain systems and required to build certain components or perhaps even to allow discovery of certain techs.. I find many games in the genre, though they have different resource levels and possibly vary in how easy to colonize, look pretty much the same once terraformed and industrialized. I like the concept of somewhat unique systems where controlling that system .... and the SPICE it produces becomes a key system to fight over.

On officers and leaders ... They seem better suited for colony and system management than as fleet commanders. While we can all appreciate having a James T Kirk, how much impact will the man have on future space battles which will effectively be fought by computers and systems. Maybe the Fleet AI Programmer gains in level and can code more advanaced routines?

Anyway, my 2 cents...Good luck lads!