EA Ulm - Flying Conans of Doom

[Tifone]

Would you mind providing some (very basic and indicative of course) research progression, to understand which early/mid/late objectives you have in mind for this strategy? 'Cuz I like to read about the tactics but I have some problems understanding in which order you'd achieve which boosters, evocs, buffs... (Of course I know some objectives can come before or later depending on what you're facing, so just a "line of thought" is needed )

[licker]

Is E9 really necessary though...

I mean clearly the cap only steel warriors with strat move 1 are going to become rather niche quickly, and while the boost to your shamen seems terrific, if you are going to be casting a buff do you really gain that much?

As opposed to what you gain by taking E6 or E8 perhaps? I've been toying with a similar kind of bless for Tir na n'og, who has more commanders who definitely benefit from the E9 bless, but even so, I've found it to be seemingly easier to get around it in other ways, and free up enough design points to either go with even better scales, or a sleeping (or in some cases awake) pretender.

I guess you can try feary trod to move things around, but it's still rather map dependent.

[Baalz]

Oh no, the steel warriors don't come close to justifying the E9 blessing. What justifies it is the shamans who are not only your thugs but also the teeth in your armies. If you're already going to E8 it's not *that* much more to go to E9, which makes those thugs much tougher and makes your combat mages more likely than not to ignore a stray arrow even without ironskin. Since I suggest using your mages pretty aggressively (spamming charm from the front line, etc.) it seems a prudent investment. Stacking on the steel warriors is a very tasty bonus which has great synergy.

If I was taking a bless primarily for the steel warriors I'd probably look more at a water/blood blessing to maximize damage output since that's the niche you're using them for.

[WraithLord]

What's the lab size anyway?- Isn't that 30?

Another great guide.

Curiously, I have an SP game that I started a few months ago the follows very similar lines
The blessed SW and dirt cheap shaman thugs are way too much for the AI to handle, even on Faeron adventure, so I naturally lost interest.

[licker]

Originally Posted by Baalz

Oh no, the steel warriors don't come close to justifying the E9 blessing. What justifies it is the shamans who are not only your thugs but also the teeth in your armies. If you're already going to E8 it's not *that* much more to go to E9, which makes those thugs much tougher and makes your combat mages more likely than not to ignore a stray arrow even without ironskin. Since I suggest using your mages pretty aggressively (spamming charm from the front line, etc.) it seems a prudent investment. Stacking on the steel warriors is a very tasty bonus which has great synergy.

If I was taking a bless primarily for the steel warriors I'd probably look more at a water/blood blessing to maximize damage output since that's the niche you're using them for.

I'm still not sold on the E9, or even E8. What's the difference in one more point of reinvig? What's the point in 4 more protection when you are already going to be at 30?

It just seems you give up a ton in opportunity cost, either for better scales, more diversity, sleeping as opposed to dormant, for 4 protection on units who are unlikely to be heavily used (steel) or targeted without prot buffs anyway(shamen). Now you may be right, and the benefit of not taking E9 doesn't really help that much, so you might as well do it.

I think the question is really do you want slightly more survieable shamen, or just MORE shamen in the first place, because if you plow those extra points into order or growth (to get away from issues already raised about taking death) you will have an easier time putting up more castles and recruiting more shamen in the first place.

Now I grant that I am not looking at the early game so much, and for some map types E9 may make alot more sense (small cramped maps with slow research). But for a 'normal' (yeah, whatever that is) set up with some room to set up, and normal research speed, it seems the benefit of taking better scales (or to a lesser extent better magic diversity on your pretender) out weighs the E9 bless.

[Dedas]

I have noticed.

But I think all of you fail to take into account the power of several attacks, especially against big units. A square can fit max 6 size 1 units, 3 size 2 units, 2 size 3 units and 1 size 4-6 unit. In battle one square attacks another square of units.

A giant is size 4 and up meaning that he will get 6 attacks made on him by dual wielders as if attacked by 6 size 1 units. And as we all know any attacks made after the first one means -2 defence for the defending unit after each attack. That means a whooping -10 to defence compared to the -4, if faced by standard one attack size 3 units, on the last hit. Add high strength and axes (damage 7) + throwing (big targets easier to hit) and you have a unit made for kicking giant asses. Oh, and giants are not uncommon in EA.

Thinking about this I come to the conclusion that this is probably what the Illwinter guys was thinking when designing EA Ulm. Axe maniacs against giants and warrior women against the more pathetic men of the other human nations, for example EA Ermor (it is even stated in their description).

One fault of the CBM mod is trying to make the axe infantry the standard run to the mill unit for EA Ulm. The truth is that they have none - it all depends on what they are facing. Dual axes will never be cost effective against standard spear + shield infantry, that is what you have warrior maidens for. Maidens on the other hand will never be the best choice if facing giants as they have less strength, punier weapons, less HP, low protection, fewer attacks. The cost effective choice here is axe maniacs. So it is all about adapting to the opposition, as always in this game. Trying to normalize everything makes it rather plain and dull.

On the other hand I love the CBM when it makes useful things with little to no use, in this case though it is wrong as I explained above.

[Wrana]

Originally Posted by Dedas

One fault of the CBM mod is trying to make the axe infantry the standard run to the mill unit for EA Ulm. The truth is that they have none - it all depends on what they are facing. Dual axes will never be cost effective against standard spear + shield infantry, that is what you have warrior maidens for. Maidens on the other hand will never be the best choice if facing giants as they have less strength, punier weapons, less HP, low protection, fewer attacks. The cost effective choice here is axe maniacs. So it is all about adapting to the opposition, as always in this game. Trying to normalize everything makes it rather plain and dull.

Sorry, but hps and protection doesn't help you against enemy giants! Higher defense of the Maidens does, though. And if you mean by "fewer attacks" normal Maidens then sorry again, of course only elite (Steel) ones are useful for overwhelming big dumb beasts. Normal Maidens would still remain quite useful for raiding and against many tramplers, as well as against many kinds of common infantry (and enemy archers).

And thank you, Baalz, though I still can't quite stomach an idea of Death scale for this nation, especially as it continues ro recruit largish armies throughout the game, together with recruitable warrior mages instead of SCs...

[Trumanator]

Just to point out a useful attribute of the Antlered Shamans. When they're blessed, they actually get a pretty good regen, 3 usually, and 4 if they have an N random. I actually found this out when looking at ways to thug out Oreiads, and for them its even better, since they have 3N naturally, and all of them can cast mistform.

Just thought I'd throw that out there, even if most pr0s probably already know it.

[Endoperez]

What? Are you saying that innate Nature magic increases the amount of regeneration you get from a Nature bless?

[Trumanator]

Yep. It implies as much in pretender magic selection I think, but other than that it seems to be a closely guarded secret.