Useless or redundant units?

[Leif_-]

Gandalf Parker said:
The idea of redundant or worthless units keeps popping up but there isnt much agreement on what they are. What you think of as worthless might better be phrased as "worthless for the way I play".

While that's generally true in Dominions, I don't think it holds for mounted archers. Here we don't have a unit or two with some slightly odd stats, but rather we have a class of units that nobody, to my knowledge, has found any real role for.

[Action]

The Tien Chi medium horse archers with

14 prot
11 morale
12 defense
10 str
10 Attack
3/23 move

Light Lance/Hoof/Composite Bow/Buckler
for 35 gp 21 resources

seem like they might be useful, in small numbers anyway. For example, you can place them in front of your normal archers or commanders to protect them from melee a bit, since they will just stay in place and shoot rather than charging forward.

I haven't tried these particular units but the Bakemono Samurai Archers with longbow and no-dashi are nice for that multi purpose role.

I think medium cavalry could be made pretty useful in small numbers if they eliminated the -2 precision penalty.

True light cavalry will probably always be pointless due to the nature of the battle engine. Giving them surival for every terrain and less supply need (small steppe ponies can just graze unlike warhorses) would be a good start though, along with the +2 precision.

[B0rsuk]

Action: you conveniently left out Precision, which is rather important for archers. I can't check it myself with just demo. I'm still at mercy of Tuxgames.

[Nerfix]

I like the Tien cavalry since they get comp bows, Falchions and lances. All good weapons.

[Action]

B0rsuk said:
Action: you conveniently left out Precision, which is rather important for archers.

Its 8

Sorry, I mentioned they got "-2 precision" a couple times but I didn't mention the exact number, I should have thrown it in.

This precision penalty does not make too much sense since they don't really shoot on the move anyway in this game. I think if they didn't have this penalty medium horse archer cavalry at least would be viable, although that probably wouldn't be enough to make people buy light horse archers.

[Quietly]

honestly, given their stationary nature, they should have a precision bonus if anything, as they have a better view/evation relative to their targets than regular ground archers

concievably they exist for fire and flee, but they are just too expensive... the chariot archers are more rediculous than the standard ones =/

[Sir_Dr_D]

When a chariot archer is killed, then it becomes anormal chariot and tries to trample the opponents, doesn't it? At least that is what the description makes it sound like. If that is the case they could be used defensively. Give them a command to just fire, then should infanrtry approach and kill an archer,t he chariot will then trample the attackers. It could be worth experimenting with.

But to make it worth the cost the chariot should have two archers in it.

[Teraswaerto]

I think chariot archers on "hold and attack" will first stay put firing a bit and then charge the enemy for some trample action. If so, they are not useless at all.

[Saxon]

The cheap monkey archers,the Markata, mass very nicely. Line them up against lightly protected troops and the volume of fire adds up. This can be useful for a quick start if you have milita in the provices next to your capital. Sure, anything can kill milita, but can they do it as cheaply?

Against heavily protected troops, the spell Destruction is very avalible for this nation and very effective. Rust Mist is not as quick, but lasts longer, so spamming the two in unison turn Helheim into light infantry, no matter what the blessing. The short bows also reduce your friendly fire, if you are using Bandar infantry with their protection.

And, as Nerfix said, Flaming Arrows is a lovely spell for this nation, though you probably have to get it via your Pretender. Wind Guide is also nice, but Flaming Arrows is better in my opinon.

Placement of this units is important, as they can run ahead if you are not careful. They are not powerful and need to be used as part of a larger strategy, but they are not totally useless.

[curtadams]

Light/medium cavalry *with lances* does indeed have its uses, at least in SP. Hold and attack works well if you micromanage them so that they charge into the enemy rather than the other way around. You can do this against the computer but not reliably against another player. The souped-up Barbarian Kings medium and heavy cavalry (they have very high stats for their price) can compose a pretty nice army. However, the bows are almost irrelevant. Basically they just let you nick the opposing army a bit while you wait for the infantry to separate from the archers so you can charge them affordably. I've never tried the chariot archers but I assume they'd be similar. Without lances, though, cavalry archers are useless. You pay twice the price for a unit that's easier to hit with arrows.